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I thought Tornado Cash already spits out untraceable crypto. So it's not enough to use a mixer? Would you not be able to slowly withdraw from Tornado Cash and j

by hey2022 4y ago

I thought Tornado Cash already spits out untraceable crypto. So it's not enough to use a mixer? Would you not be able to slowly withdraw from Tornado Cash and just exchange for fiat?

from 4y ago
Imagine you steal 10,500 ETH. Then you deposit it into Tornado Cash. Then a year later a new address withdraws exactly 10,500 ETH from Tornado Cash (100 ETH at a time). That would look pretty suspicious. Exactly you should slowly withdraw from Tornado. But you cannot use companies like Coinbase Gemini et al because they will ask about source of funds after a certain amount which you obviously do not want to reveal and coins that pass through Tornado are tainted now due to Tornado getting put on the OFAC list so they may freeze your accounts. So that’s where the sketchy people come in.
- paulpauper 4y ago
  all you need is plausible deniability . If the govt. cannot prove you stole, then they cannot just prosecute you for using tornado cash (as far as the US is concered). Of course, exchanges may refuse to accept your coins if they are tied to tornado cash.
  - from 4y ago
    Any US person who has interacted with Tornado Cash after the OFAC designation has commited a felony (IEEPA violation). That means all funds tracable to it can be subject to forfeiture, and if you are directly receiving amounts of money from Tornado that substantially exceed your income for the past couple years you make the governments forfeiture case even easier. You are right that they may not be able to charge you with the initial crime. That is why you would want to leave the US for a jurisdiction that doesn’t care about those kind of things and work with people who aren’t regulated.
papercrane 4y ago
My understanding is that exchanging crypto that's gone through a mixer, especially Tornado Cash, is getting more and more difficult. The major exchanges don't want anything to do with coins that have gone through a mixer. That's where a sketchy guy who charges a large percentage comes in.
colinmhayes 4y ago
The government will ask you where you got the crypto from. This is why NFTs became huge. It's conceivable enough that you bought some for $100 and sold them for $10,000. When in reality you're just wash trading between your clean and dirty wallets.

I thought Tornado Cash already spits out untraceable crypto. So it's not enough to use a mixer? Would you not be able to slowly withdraw from Tornado Cash and just exchange for fiat?

from 4y ago

Imagine you steal 10,500 ETH. Then you deposit it into Tornado Cash. Then a year later a new address withdraws exactly 10,500 ETH from Tornado Cash (100 ETH at a time). That would look pretty suspicious. Exactly you should slowly withdraw from Tornado. But you cannot use companies like Coinbase Gemini et al because they will ask about source of funds after a certain amount which you obviously do not want to reveal and coins that pass through Tornado are tainted now due to Tornado getting put on the OFAC list so they may freeze your accounts. So that’s where the sketchy people come in.

paulpauper 4y ago
all you need is plausible deniability . If the govt. cannot prove you stole, then they cannot just prosecute you for using tornado cash (as far as the US is concered). Of course, exchanges may refuse to accept your coins if they are tied to tornado cash.
- from 4y ago
  Any US person who has interacted with Tornado Cash after the OFAC designation has commited a felony (IEEPA violation). That means all funds tracable to it can be subject to forfeiture, and if you are directly receiving amounts of money from Tornado that substantially exceed your income for the past couple years you make the governments forfeiture case even easier. You are right that they may not be able to charge you with the initial crime. That is why you would want to leave the US for a jurisdiction that doesn’t care about those kind of things and work with people who aren’t regulated.

papercrane 4y ago

My understanding is that exchanging crypto that's gone through a mixer, especially Tornado Cash, is getting more and more difficult. The major exchanges don't want anything to do with coins that have gone through a mixer. That's where a sketchy guy who charges a large percentage comes in.

colinmhayes 4y ago

The government will ask you where you got the crypto from. This is why NFTs became huge. It's conceivable enough that you bought some for $100 and sold them for $10,000. When in reality you're just wash trading between your clean and dirty wallets.