4 ms·

Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There have been nonprofit organizations and government initiatives to give homeless people space in unoccupied ho

by warent 4y ago

Unfortunately it's more complicated than this. There have been nonprofit organizations and government initiatives to give homeless people space in unoccupied hotels for example. What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways. It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. In the USA, there are pretty much zero mental health resources for people in poverty.

jakelazaroff 4y ago
The problem is multifaceted. And homeless people are not a monolith. There are large cohorts for whom simply receiving a home would make life significantly easier.
- newaccount2021 4y ago
acdha 4y ago
What sometimes ends up happening. It’s true that we have huge gaps for mental health and substance abuse but there are examples (famously, Salt Lake City) of such programs working. The mixed history says we need to take the problem seriously, not give up.
faitswulff 4y ago
There's a positive feedback loop between mental health and housing, so it takes more than tilting either end of the equation to fix it.
Entinel 4y ago
> It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. This isn't true or at least it doesn't start that way. What people don't understand is that there isn't a single homeless population. You have people who are temporarily homeless and people who are chronically homeless. The temporarily homeless are people who lost jobs, fell on hard times, etc etc. The simplest solution for them is yes to give them housing. The chronically homeless is where things get more complicated and those are the people who typically need mental health and abuse services. The simplest and most efficient thing we can do is help the temporarily homeless and prevent them from becoming chronically homeless.
- rolph 4y ago
  yes there are different castes of homeless, some do quite well, and are not problematic. others are of disorganized psyche, and cause much of thier own problems, resulting in no one wanting them around.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing. Obviously any improvements are good, but fundamentally the issue is with the chronically homeless who often have other factors going on.
  - michaelt 4y ago
    > We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing. I’ll take tautological statements for $200 please Alex
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      This is the industry term for people between housing (they can't make rent, they got kicked out, etc). It differentiates from the chronically homeless who can not be rehoused simply by giving them a place to live.
peatmoss 4y ago
> What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways. Citation very much needed here. This certainly does happen. But, I don’t believe this the general (i.e. typical) outcome. From what I understand talking to acquaintances who work in this area, wrecking the place is not the typical outcome. And property damage is generally cheaper to address than the constant provision of emergency services. I agree that mental health (and substance use) are major factors in homelessness, but those issues are more or less impossible to address when people are living on the street with no permanent address and no place to keep e.g. a cell phone without it being stolen.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  At least a data point here - my city of Austin is buying a hotel to convert into housing for the homeless. This has gone badly. The property sees intense vandalism and destruction, the neighbors are afraid for their safety, and the whole thing is an amazingly expensive boondoggle. [0]: https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-hotel-purchased-homeless-shelter-vandalized-nearly-every-door-bashed-damage https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-hotel-purchased-homeless-s... [1]: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/16/austin-homeless-hotel-candlewood-suites-vandalism/9748773002/ https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/16/austin-homel...
  - Vvector 4y ago
    That's a bad example. The unoccupied hotel was vandalized before the homeless were moved in. Yes, it a boondoggle, but nothing to do with homeless.
    - vorpalhex 4y ago
      I don't think it was the local homeowners stealing live copper from the walls.
      - threatofrain 4y ago
        Sounds like it could be a ring of criminals who are connected to those who can buy copper.
carapace 4y ago
That's a good argument for giving them some other housing arrangement. It's not an argument for leaving them on the street.
clint 4y ago
What you describe is not "giving the homeless a home" its giving them a temporary, poor substitute for a home that they have no personal interest in" Also your sweeping statement about the destruction of their living space smells to high heaven prejudiced thinking based on myth or hearsay rather than actual data.
themitigating 4y ago
Source on both mental health being the majority and that generally the homeless will destroy the space they are given?

by warent 4y ago

jakelazaroff 4y ago

The problem is multifaceted. And homeless people are not a monolith. There are large cohorts for whom simply receiving a home would make life significantly easier.

newaccount2021 4y ago

acdha 4y ago

What sometimes ends up happening. It’s true that we have huge gaps for mental health and substance abuse but there are examples (famously, Salt Lake City) of such programs working. The mixed history says we need to take the problem seriously, not give up.

faitswulff 4y ago

There's a positive feedback loop between mental health and housing, so it takes more than tilting either end of the equation to fix it.

Entinel 4y ago

> It's because the majority of homelessness is an issue of mental health. This isn't true or at least it doesn't start that way. What people don't understand is that there isn't a single homeless population. You have people who are temporarily homeless and people who are chronically homeless. The temporarily homeless are people who lost jobs, fell on hard times, etc etc. The simplest solution for them is yes to give them housing. The chronically homeless is where things get more complicated and those are the people who typically need mental health and abuse services. The simplest and most efficient thing we can do is help the temporarily homeless and prevent them from becoming chronically homeless.

rolph 4y ago
yes there are different castes of homeless, some do quite well, and are not problematic. others are of disorganized psyche, and cause much of thier own problems, resulting in no one wanting them around.
vorpalhex 4y ago
We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing. Obviously any improvements are good, but fundamentally the issue is with the chronically homeless who often have other factors going on.
- michaelt 4y ago
  > We're pretty good at getting the temporarily homeless into housing. I’ll take tautological statements for $200 please Alex
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    This is the industry term for people between housing (they can't make rent, they got kicked out, etc). It differentiates from the chronically homeless who can not be rehoused simply by giving them a place to live.

peatmoss 4y ago

> What ends up happening is they generally just destroy the living space in a variety of ways. Citation very much needed here. This certainly does happen. But, I don’t believe this the general (i.e. typical) outcome. From what I understand talking to acquaintances who work in this area, wrecking the place is not the typical outcome. And property damage is generally cheaper to address than the constant provision of emergency services. I agree that mental health (and substance use) are major factors in homelessness, but those issues are more or less impossible to address when people are living on the street with no permanent address and no place to keep e.g. a cell phone without it being stolen.

vorpalhex 4y ago
At least a data point here - my city of Austin is buying a hotel to convert into housing for the homeless. This has gone badly. The property sees intense vandalism and destruction, the neighbors are afraid for their safety, and the whole thing is an amazingly expensive boondoggle. [0]: https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-hotel-purchased-homeless-shelter-vandalized-nearly-every-door-bashed-damage https://www.foxnews.com/us/austin-hotel-purchased-homeless-s... [1]: https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/16/austin-homeless-hotel-candlewood-suites-vandalism/9748773002/ https://www.statesman.com/story/news/2022/05/16/austin-homel...
- Vvector 4y ago
  That's a bad example. The unoccupied hotel was vandalized before the homeless were moved in. Yes, it a boondoggle, but nothing to do with homeless.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    I don't think it was the local homeowners stealing live copper from the walls.
    - threatofrain 4y ago
      Sounds like it could be a ring of criminals who are connected to those who can buy copper.

carapace 4y ago

That's a good argument for giving them some other housing arrangement. It's not an argument for leaving them on the street.

clint 4y ago

What you describe is not "giving the homeless a home" its giving them a temporary, poor substitute for a home that they have no personal interest in" Also your sweeping statement about the destruction of their living space smells to high heaven prejudiced thinking based on myth or hearsay rather than actual data.

themitigating 4y ago

Source on both mental health being the majority and that generally the homeless will destroy the space they are given?