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How would I let my pets run around in the garden? Where do I put my wood fired pizza oven? How do I teach my kids how to grow potatoes and build things? Where d

How would I let my pets run around in the garden? Where do I put my wood fired pizza oven? How do I teach my kids how to grow potatoes and build things? Where do I put the koi pond? There is perhaps some platonic ideal of an apartment where you can live a similar quality of life to a house. But in the reality that we actually live in currently, living in a house usually has a much better quality of life so it's natural that people would prefer it.

ben_w 4y ago
It depends what you want from a home. I'd prefer a house than my current apartment, but a different set of preferences makes apartments perfect (and more people in apartments necessarily make it easier to supply houses for those of us who prefer houses).
EricDeb 4y ago
Europeans don't need those things
- cameronh90 4y ago
  I am European.
- dns_snek 4y ago
  What a ridiculous generalization. Everyone has their own preferences, needs, and wants.
bumby 4y ago
There are places that do many of those things, but in a community format. My SO and still think back to how great it was to have an apartment with a park next door where we could let our dogs run. They had more space there than our current home. I've never seen a public wood fired pizza oven but community bbq's were pretty standard at our apartments in the past. We have a community projects place that gives us the opportunity to do all kinds of woodworking (my personal hobby) without spending tons on equipment. Plus there's always people there more competent that I can learn from. We have a seed-sharing repository in our local library and the ag school has plenty of gardening resources. I think what you're talking about is certainly possible, but it takes a concerted approach to meet the needs of a community. I tend to think people in the US prefer housing because there is a much more individualistic mindset combined with relative affluence that gives people the option to eschew many community approaches.
- cameronh90 4y ago
  So I'm actually British, not American, but I think we largely have similar attitudes towards desiring a house here. I think most European countries do too, really, once you get past a certain age. I'm not sure about how Asians are on average, but most Asians I know would certainly prefer to live in a house if they're past their mid 30s. There are a few European countries where >50% of people live in flats: Spain for example. In Spain, however, the reason most people say they live in a flat isn't out of preference, it's because houses are too expensive. The other thing to note is that the European countries where flat habitation is popular tend to have interesting reasons behind it. In many cases, it's because they were built during the Soviet era. I do think those community amenities are valuable, whether people live in houses or flats. I live in London, in an area with quite a good sense of community. I have an allotment, help at the community garden, live next to a very well maintained park, etc. but it really isn't the same as having your own private space. For example with the building stuff, I used to go to a Hackerspace, but I'm getting a lot more done now that I have a bunch of equipment at home. Simply getting things to and from my old Hackerspace was a nightmare without a car. Shared spaces also have rules which may not be compatible with what you're trying to do. My allotment doesn't allow irrigation systems, for example, so my little automated irrigation project in my garden wouldn't go down too well there! Plus there are all these small things like talking to my neighbours over the wall, being able to easily get my bicycle in and out, not having to walk up 12 flights of stairs because someone is moving in and has the lift blocked, etc. One of my favourite things to do in this past warm summer was to just work outside in my garden, in the breeze, with my laptop plugged into my outdoor sockets, fast WiFi and the ability to just pop into the kitchen for drinks. I'm not saying flats shouldn't be made more tolerable - but aside from density meaning you can live closer to the centre, is there any case where a flat is really a better quality of life? Also an interesting thing to consider is: how different is building vertically with elevators, versus building horizontally with trains, anyway?
jrockway 4y ago
There are plenty of high density apartments that have public and private gardens available. But yeah, not something that will ever be available to everyone simply because there is only one ground floor. In general, though, density doesn't mean that you can't have yards. Do you need a front yard, back yard, and two side yards to set up a wood fired pizza oven, grow potatoes, and build things? Nope. Just a backyard could be fine. So you could share an exterior wall with your neighbors, stick your front door right up against the street, and do all the same things as a freestanding house but at lower cost and higher density. If townhouses were more of a thing, you could have everything you want, AND not have to drive. The only problem is zoning laws.
- cameronh90 4y ago
  My house is actually semi-detached with a driveway and flower beds, rather than detached, but there is one huge disadvantage to town houses: it's practically impossible to get equipment into your garden, which makes a lot of landscaping really, really difficult. Even just getting forks and soil into your garden is bound to make a mess of your house. Terraces (like town houses but with front gardens or driveways) are very popular in the UK, but most people will ultimately prefer a semi-detached for that reason. An interesting approach we used to have was where rather than adjoining gardens at the back, we'd put an path down the back of the townhouses between the gardens, with a door into each garden, so you could easily walk/cycle and, if needed, get equipment into your back garden. Apparently we stopped doing that because those alleys turned into major crime and antisocial behaviour hot spots, and people stopped buying houses with alley access due to people constantly jumping your fence and nicking anything in your garden that wasn't tied down. Where I grew up was like a townhouse/semi-detached hybrid - the upper two floors were terraced, but at ground level there was a car garage that connected the street and back garden. A lot of people don't like that design because it's associated with council homes (mine was a council home), but I actually thought it was a best of both worlds.
sheepybloke 4y ago
This! Honestly, this is the reason that I want a house. In reality, I don't want the house, but a bit more space that isn't just in my apartment. A little space out back for if I want to dabble with grilling. A basement or garage if want to start a larger project. These are things you can't easily do in a standard apartment. That's also why I think the next stage of development will be more townhome focused. Think UK row houses, where you have a little backyard and maybe a garage, but not detached.
subderisorious 4y ago
Your conception of quality of life is not universal. Assume I have a detached home in the suburbs. How am I going to walk to the grocery store when it's miles away? How do I live without a car when there's no public transit? How do I get access to job opportunities, cultural experiences, dining options, and other amenities that come with close proximity to an urban core? If your answer is "But my detached home is near the urban core!" then you're fortunate, but as large American cities have shown us that doesn't scale.
- cameronh90 4y ago
  In the UK, we don't often to have miles of suburbs without a grocery store. That's a separate choice around car centricity that the US has made. I live in London, in a suburb, but within a 10 minute walk, I have multiple pubs, doctors, dentists, restaurants, small supermarkets, library, community garden and - most importantly - a train station that takes me into central London in about 10 minutes. The way we structure housing here tends to be arranged around lots of smaller satellite town and villages connected to a large city centre. Big cities like London will provide trains for commuters and going "out out", but in a smaller town you often live a lot of your social life more locally and might commute to work by car. The other thing in the UK is our houses aren't particularly large. A terrace home might not be more than 50% bigger than an apartment, but you get a garden, driveway and actually own some real land.
  - badpun 4y ago
    > I live in London, in a suburb, but within a 10 minute walk I would dispute that "in London" actually counts as a suburbs. The real suburbs (the ones we'd need to build if everyone lived in a detached house) would be way out.

ben_w 4y ago

It depends what you want from a home. I'd prefer a house than my current apartment, but a different set of preferences makes apartments perfect (and more people in apartments necessarily make it easier to supply houses for those of us who prefer houses).

EricDeb 4y ago

Europeans don't need those things

cameronh90 4y ago
I am European.
dns_snek 4y ago
What a ridiculous generalization. Everyone has their own preferences, needs, and wants.

bumby 4y ago

There are places that do many of those things, but in a community format. My SO and still think back to how great it was to have an apartment with a park next door where we could let our dogs run. They had more space there than our current home. I've never seen a public wood fired pizza oven but community bbq's were pretty standard at our apartments in the past. We have a community projects place that gives us the opportunity to do all kinds of woodworking (my personal hobby) without spending tons on equipment. Plus there's always people there more competent that I can learn from. We have a seed-sharing repository in our local library and the ag school has plenty of gardening resources. I think what you're talking about is certainly possible, but it takes a concerted approach to meet the needs of a community. I tend to think people in the US prefer housing because there is a much more individualistic mindset combined with relative affluence that gives people the option to eschew many community approaches.

cameronh90 4y ago
So I'm actually British, not American, but I think we largely have similar attitudes towards desiring a house here. I think most European countries do too, really, once you get past a certain age. I'm not sure about how Asians are on average, but most Asians I know would certainly prefer to live in a house if they're past their mid 30s. There are a few European countries where >50% of people live in flats: Spain for example. In Spain, however, the reason most people say they live in a flat isn't out of preference, it's because houses are too expensive. The other thing to note is that the European countries where flat habitation is popular tend to have interesting reasons behind it. In many cases, it's because they were built during the Soviet era. I do think those community amenities are valuable, whether people live in houses or flats. I live in London, in an area with quite a good sense of community. I have an allotment, help at the community garden, live next to a very well maintained park, etc. but it really isn't the same as having your own private space. For example with the building stuff, I used to go to a Hackerspace, but I'm getting a lot more done now that I have a bunch of equipment at home. Simply getting things to and from my old Hackerspace was a nightmare without a car. Shared spaces also have rules which may not be compatible with what you're trying to do. My allotment doesn't allow irrigation systems, for example, so my little automated irrigation project in my garden wouldn't go down too well there! Plus there are all these small things like talking to my neighbours over the wall, being able to easily get my bicycle in and out, not having to walk up 12 flights of stairs because someone is moving in and has the lift blocked, etc. One of my favourite things to do in this past warm summer was to just work outside in my garden, in the breeze, with my laptop plugged into my outdoor sockets, fast WiFi and the ability to just pop into the kitchen for drinks. I'm not saying flats shouldn't be made more tolerable - but aside from density meaning you can live closer to the centre, is there any case where a flat is really a better quality of life? Also an interesting thing to consider is: how different is building vertically with elevators, versus building horizontally with trains, anyway?

jrockway 4y ago

There are plenty of high density apartments that have public and private gardens available. But yeah, not something that will ever be available to everyone simply because there is only one ground floor. In general, though, density doesn't mean that you can't have yards. Do you need a front yard, back yard, and two side yards to set up a wood fired pizza oven, grow potatoes, and build things? Nope. Just a backyard could be fine. So you could share an exterior wall with your neighbors, stick your front door right up against the street, and do all the same things as a freestanding house but at lower cost and higher density. If townhouses were more of a thing, you could have everything you want, AND not have to drive. The only problem is zoning laws.

cameronh90 4y ago
My house is actually semi-detached with a driveway and flower beds, rather than detached, but there is one huge disadvantage to town houses: it's practically impossible to get equipment into your garden, which makes a lot of landscaping really, really difficult. Even just getting forks and soil into your garden is bound to make a mess of your house. Terraces (like town houses but with front gardens or driveways) are very popular in the UK, but most people will ultimately prefer a semi-detached for that reason. An interesting approach we used to have was where rather than adjoining gardens at the back, we'd put an path down the back of the townhouses between the gardens, with a door into each garden, so you could easily walk/cycle and, if needed, get equipment into your back garden. Apparently we stopped doing that because those alleys turned into major crime and antisocial behaviour hot spots, and people stopped buying houses with alley access due to people constantly jumping your fence and nicking anything in your garden that wasn't tied down. Where I grew up was like a townhouse/semi-detached hybrid - the upper two floors were terraced, but at ground level there was a car garage that connected the street and back garden. A lot of people don't like that design because it's associated with council homes (mine was a council home), but I actually thought it was a best of both worlds.

sheepybloke 4y ago

This! Honestly, this is the reason that I want a house. In reality, I don't want the house, but a bit more space that isn't just in my apartment. A little space out back for if I want to dabble with grilling. A basement or garage if want to start a larger project. These are things you can't easily do in a standard apartment. That's also why I think the next stage of development will be more townhome focused. Think UK row houses, where you have a little backyard and maybe a garage, but not detached.

subderisorious 4y ago

Your conception of quality of life is not universal. Assume I have a detached home in the suburbs. How am I going to walk to the grocery store when it's miles away? How do I live without a car when there's no public transit? How do I get access to job opportunities, cultural experiences, dining options, and other amenities that come with close proximity to an urban core? If your answer is "But my detached home is near the urban core!" then you're fortunate, but as large American cities have shown us that doesn't scale.

cameronh90 4y ago
In the UK, we don't often to have miles of suburbs without a grocery store. That's a separate choice around car centricity that the US has made. I live in London, in a suburb, but within a 10 minute walk, I have multiple pubs, doctors, dentists, restaurants, small supermarkets, library, community garden and - most importantly - a train station that takes me into central London in about 10 minutes. The way we structure housing here tends to be arranged around lots of smaller satellite town and villages connected to a large city centre. Big cities like London will provide trains for commuters and going "out out", but in a smaller town you often live a lot of your social life more locally and might commute to work by car. The other thing in the UK is our houses aren't particularly large. A terrace home might not be more than 50% bigger than an apartment, but you get a garden, driveway and actually own some real land.
- badpun 4y ago
  > I live in London, in a suburb, but within a 10 minute walk I would dispute that "in London" actually counts as a suburbs. The real suburbs (the ones we'd need to build if everyone lived in a detached house) would be way out.