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I think this is a better answer than it first appears. Initiatives at for profit corporations will always exist within some business constraints, shareholder o

by md_ 4y ago

I think this is a better answer than it first appears. Initiatives at for profit corporations will always exist within some business constraints, shareholder obligations, and so forth. It would be very reasonable for governments to provide tax-supported digital services. I could easily imagine that spending a few dollars per year to provide the homeless with basic digital services would pay off simply in easing administrative overhead. But we don't do it, because, in America, our sense of what government can or should provide is atrophied, and we, mistakenly, look to private actors to provide basic public services.

s1artibartfast 4y ago
>But we don't do it, because, in America, our sense of what government can or should provide is atrophied, and we, mistakenly, look to private actors to provide basic public services. I don't think this matches reality. The US government is doing more today than any time point in the past. Spending and taxation as a percent of dgp is at an all time high. There's also a sense that nobody should have to do anything themselves. There's nothing stopping anyone from talking to a homeless person and helping them set up an email account without 2fa.
- md_ 4y ago
  That's fair that I shouldn't make such an unqualified statement. While public spending as a % of GDP has indeed increased, that's primarily driven by two things: increased defence (and related) spending, and increased spending on health costs. In the US, the growth in social assistance spending over the last 3 decades is driven almost entirely by the latter: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-expenditure-as-percentage-of-gdp?country=~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-expenditure-as-per.... At the same time, we continue to believe in privatizing basic government services: outsourcing social assistance to charities (including religious charities), outsourcing military and intelligence functions to mercenaries, or, on point for this thread, outsourcing ID verification to VC-funded private startups.
  - s1artibartfast 4y ago
    Looking at your numbers or just social spending, it is increased 50% since 1990 as a portion of GDP. Real GDP adjusted for inflation itself has increased more than 3x since 1990. This means that us social spending in terms of inflation adjusted purchases has gone up more than 450% from 1990 levels. This excludes military spending and is adjusted for the purchasing power of those dollars. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like we are getting 450% more value out of the government services. The numbers are pretty clear that the government is collecting more and more inflation adjusted dollars from people's income than ever before. I Suspect we would probably agree that the government is not being a responsible steward of this money that it is collecting. My primary point was that I don't think that the belief that a decrease in government spending and Revenue is reflected in the numbers. Further, I think it is important to push back on the idea that the systemic issues we see can simply be solved by throwing more money into an increasingly inefficient system.
    - md_ 4y ago
      Sure. My point was indeed to suggest we rethink what government can do. Can governments (not necessarily the federal government) run a public service internet system? Sure, and probably more easily than we can, as another poster suggested, regulate tech companies into providing the right tradeoffs for housed and unhoused users.
      - s1artibartfast 4y ago
        I've been on municipal Broadband and it was fine. I ended up moving to a private provider because it was better and cheaper. When it comes to the right trade-off for the housed and the unhoused in terms of email service, I'm skeptical that the solution is regulatory. It seems like there is a large number of email providers that already offer what the homeless need. The problem is simply setting them up with the correct provider and user settings. This seems like a job for people that work with the homeless.
        md_ 4y ago

by md_ 4y ago

s1artibartfast 4y ago

>But we don't do it, because, in America, our sense of what government can or should provide is atrophied, and we, mistakenly, look to private actors to provide basic public services. I don't think this matches reality. The US government is doing more today than any time point in the past. Spending and taxation as a percent of dgp is at an all time high. There's also a sense that nobody should have to do anything themselves. There's nothing stopping anyone from talking to a homeless person and helping them set up an email account without 2fa.

md_ 4y ago
That's fair that I shouldn't make such an unqualified statement. While public spending as a % of GDP has indeed increased, that's primarily driven by two things: increased defence (and related) spending, and increased spending on health costs. In the US, the growth in social assistance spending over the last 3 decades is driven almost entirely by the latter: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-expenditure-as-percentage-of-gdp?country=~USA https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/social-expenditure-as-per.... At the same time, we continue to believe in privatizing basic government services: outsourcing social assistance to charities (including religious charities), outsourcing military and intelligence functions to mercenaries, or, on point for this thread, outsourcing ID verification to VC-funded private startups.
- s1artibartfast 4y ago
  Looking at your numbers or just social spending, it is increased 50% since 1990 as a portion of GDP. Real GDP adjusted for inflation itself has increased more than 3x since 1990. This means that us social spending in terms of inflation adjusted purchases has gone up more than 450% from 1990 levels. This excludes military spending and is adjusted for the purchasing power of those dollars. I don't know about you, but I don't feel like we are getting 450% more value out of the government services. The numbers are pretty clear that the government is collecting more and more inflation adjusted dollars from people's income than ever before. I Suspect we would probably agree that the government is not being a responsible steward of this money that it is collecting. My primary point was that I don't think that the belief that a decrease in government spending and Revenue is reflected in the numbers. Further, I think it is important to push back on the idea that the systemic issues we see can simply be solved by throwing more money into an increasingly inefficient system.
  - md_ 4y ago
    Sure. My point was indeed to suggest we rethink what government can do. Can governments (not necessarily the federal government) run a public service internet system? Sure, and probably more easily than we can, as another poster suggested, regulate tech companies into providing the right tradeoffs for housed and unhoused users.
    - s1artibartfast 4y ago
      I've been on municipal Broadband and it was fine. I ended up moving to a private provider because it was better and cheaper. When it comes to the right trade-off for the housed and the unhoused in terms of email service, I'm skeptical that the solution is regulatory. It seems like there is a large number of email providers that already offer what the homeless need. The problem is simply setting them up with the correct provider and user settings. This seems like a job for people that work with the homeless.
      - md_ 4y ago