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I don't think access to email is the biggest concern the homeless have. It sucks, but there are alternatives besides gmail and if google is going to spend time

I don't think access to email is the biggest concern the homeless have. It sucks, but there are alternatives besides gmail and if google is going to spend time on this, I'd rather they not and instead spend time on getting homeless into homes.

lxgr 4y ago
Who do you think would be spending time on this at Google? I highly doubt that their software engineers and product managers in charge of 2FA would, when idle between pull requests, go out and help the homeless. Why not lobby those engineers and product managers to improve something that they are actually have agency and arguably a mandate to improve, helping users homeless and otherwise?
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  I don't understand the question, google cannot attempt to solve this without assigning someone to spend their time on it. If they do so, I would rather they put that money into actually helping the homeless.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    I think you vastly overestimate the fungibility of engineering resources in large corporations. Also, which one do you think the involved stakeholders at Google would have an easier time getting signed-off: Decreasing reliance on stable phone numbers as an authentication factor, or firing a couple of people and donating their salaries to an organization helping the homeless? Sometimes, depending on the probability of success, the pragmatic choice is also the ethical one.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      oh stop it, tech people always think the world works in binary. Apparently this multi-billion dollar company can't see fit to help humanity because it's literally hard (or impossible?). That somehow I, as an individual, have more of an effect because charities only ever accept money from individuals and not billion dollar corporations? seriously, just stop.
adgjlsfhk1 4y ago
What about when you want to apply to a job or an apartment which requires email?
- P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
  I would expect it to require a phone number and physical address before an email. I also wonder if this person on twitter would be willing to let his friends use his email or phone. The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges. It wouldn't even BE an issue if they weren't homeless in the first place, for example.
  - lxgr 4y ago
    Did you even read the linked thread, of a person apparently actually working with homeless people? It explicitly mentions that email is the preferred method of communication for many of them, for reasons also mentioned in the thread. > The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges. You seem to be under the impression that improvements to the condition of people's lives are only ethically acceptable if they happen ordered strictly by descending impact. In my experience, that's not realistic.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      And you seem to think doing the easiest thing is actually useful.
      - lxgr 4y ago
        Yes, I do think that doing something useful is useful, even if it is easy.
        P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        and thus does the problem continue because those who could help are too busy making themselves feel better with as little effort as possible. It's 2FA ... for homeless people.

lxgr 4y ago

Who do you think would be spending time on this at Google? I highly doubt that their software engineers and product managers in charge of 2FA would, when idle between pull requests, go out and help the homeless. Why not lobby those engineers and product managers to improve something that they are actually have agency and arguably a mandate to improve, helping users homeless and otherwise?

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
I don't understand the question, google cannot attempt to solve this without assigning someone to spend their time on it. If they do so, I would rather they put that money into actually helping the homeless.
- lxgr 4y ago
  I think you vastly overestimate the fungibility of engineering resources in large corporations. Also, which one do you think the involved stakeholders at Google would have an easier time getting signed-off: Decreasing reliance on stable phone numbers as an authentication factor, or firing a couple of people and donating their salaries to an organization helping the homeless? Sometimes, depending on the probability of success, the pragmatic choice is also the ethical one.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    oh stop it, tech people always think the world works in binary. Apparently this multi-billion dollar company can't see fit to help humanity because it's literally hard (or impossible?). That somehow I, as an individual, have more of an effect because charities only ever accept money from individuals and not billion dollar corporations? seriously, just stop.

adgjlsfhk1 4y ago

What about when you want to apply to a job or an apartment which requires email?

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
I would expect it to require a phone number and physical address before an email. I also wonder if this person on twitter would be willing to let his friends use his email or phone. The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges. It wouldn't even BE an issue if they weren't homeless in the first place, for example.
- lxgr 4y ago
  Did you even read the linked thread, of a person apparently actually working with homeless people? It explicitly mentions that email is the preferred method of communication for many of them, for reasons also mentioned in the thread. > The homeless have challenges, no doubt, but that does not imply google worrying about 2FA for the homeless is the best way to solve those challenges. You seem to be under the impression that improvements to the condition of people's lives are only ethically acceptable if they happen ordered strictly by descending impact. In my experience, that's not realistic.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    And you seem to think doing the easiest thing is actually useful.
    - lxgr 4y ago
      Yes, I do think that doing something useful is useful, even if it is easy.
      - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
        and thus does the problem continue because those who could help are too busy making themselves feel better with as little effort as possible. It's 2FA ... for homeless people.