7 ms·

Because Americans regard living in anything other than a detached house as a failure.

by badpun 4y ago

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
Well would you want to share a wall and roof with most Americans?
- mym1990 4y ago
- CyberDildonics 4y ago
  What would possess someone to say this? You think there is something different about americans or that americans don't live in apartments?
  - JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
    I just go to Walmart often. And the wonderful solitude and quiet of my old house in a dying town contrasts sharply with my college years living in apartments.
  - bumby 4y ago
    I do think there is something different that leads Americans to desire homes and consider apartment living a failure. Some of it is the rhetoric about owning a home being part of the American Dream. Some of it is about the nature of the US housing market being a such an avenue to wealth (Americans have a disproportionate amount of their wealth wrapped up in their home). Some of it may be the individualistic mindset.
  - fragmede 4y ago
    American apartments in general are shoddily constructed and thus are a lower quality of living. There's no getting around that. Walls that are paper thin with no insulation so you can listen in on your neighbor's phone calls. Poorly done ceilings/floors so the upstairs neighbors' kids running around wakes you up in the morning. Single pane glass so heating/cooling bill is expensive, and the sounds of the street are audible throughout the day (you never want to live above a bus stop). Neighbors from all walks of life, which can be a nightmare if those walks of life include drug dealers and addicts and domestic violence, with norecourse from the police. No elevators up to the fifth floor. No trash pickup for large items. Shite public transportation and no good parking options. Horrible corporate landlord management company to contend with. I would love to live in an apartment complex in, say, Sweden, but there's a huge cultural component to apartment living in America that would have to change before it matches apartment living elsewhere. Even if building codes changed tonight it would still wouldn't address the issues of city design/public transportation that hurt the very notion of living that tightly together to begin with. It's just not at all convenient to live in an apartment complex that's miles away from the nearest public transportation hub or even a strip mall.
    - CyberDildonics 4y ago
      > Walls that are paper thin with no insulation so you can listen in on your neighbor's phone calls. These sound like wild assumptions with nothing to back them up. https://basc.pnnl.gov/code-compliance/air-sealing-and-insulating-common-walls-party-walls-multi-family-buildings-code https://basc.pnnl.gov/code-compliance/air-sealing-and-insula... "Many builders are insulating these walls fully for sound proofing purposes per the International Building Code (IBC), Section 1207, Sound Transmission walls, partitions, and floor/ceiling assemblies separating dwelling units from each other must have a sound transmission class (STC) of not less than 50 for airborne noise when tested in accordance with ASTM E 90." Also the comment I replied to said 'americans' not 'in america'
  - pandaman 4y ago
    Home ownership rate in the US had been over 60% for a long time. Because of that there is a high chance that your apartment neighbors grew up in a detached home and have no habits that apartment dwellers teach their children. Combined with the fact that apartments are usually temporary accommodations this can produce very disruptive neighbors. This is not unique to America, all the countries that went through rapid urbanization that moved millions of former farmers from detached homes into city apartments have an archetype of a rural rube unable to accommodate to communal living with strangers.
- SapporoChris 4y ago
  Apartments do not have to be noisy. A well built apartment with concrete floors and concrete interior walls greatly reduces noise. There are many other things that can be done to reduce noise, double pane (or triple) windows, carpeted floors, apartment noise policy.
anthlax 4y ago
Quite the broad generalization! What say you about American cities? The Americans living there are viewed as failures by other 5, as well as themselves?
cameronh90 4y ago
How would I let my pets run around in the garden? Where do I put my wood fired pizza oven? How do I teach my kids how to grow potatoes and build things? Where do I put the koi pond? There is perhaps some platonic ideal of an apartment where you can live a similar quality of life to a house. But in the reality that we actually live in currently, living in a house usually has a much better quality of life so it's natural that people would prefer it.
- ben_w 4y ago
  It depends what you want from a home. I'd prefer a house than my current apartment, but a different set of preferences makes apartments perfect (and more people in apartments necessarily make it easier to supply houses for those of us who prefer houses).
- EricDeb 4y ago
  Europeans don't need those things
  - cameronh90 4y ago
    I am European.
  - dns_snek 4y ago
    What a ridiculous generalization. Everyone has their own preferences, needs, and wants.
- bumby 4y ago
  There are places that do many of those things, but in a community format. My SO and still think back to how great it was to have an apartment with a park next door where we could let our dogs run. They had more space there than our current home. I've never seen a public wood fired pizza oven but community bbq's were pretty standard at our apartments in the past. We have a community projects place that gives us the opportunity to do all kinds of woodworking (my personal hobby) without spending tons on equipment. Plus there's always people there more competent that I can learn from. We have a seed-sharing repository in our local library and the ag school has plenty of gardening resources. I think what you're talking about is certainly possible, but it takes a concerted approach to meet the needs of a community. I tend to think people in the US prefer housing because there is a much more individualistic mindset combined with relative affluence that gives people the option to eschew many community approaches.
bergenty 4y ago
I hate apartment living. People on all sides, you have to live like a mouse, no room for any activities.
- russh 4y ago
  Have you thought about bunk beds? I saw a documentary awhile ago where it was discovered that switching to bunk beds creates ample room for activities.
  - bergenty 4y ago
    I mean like a garden, a pool, a wood/metal working shop, gun range, kids play area, badminton court etc.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Are you saying you want access to each of those or you want your own private resource for each of those? They are very different questions with different answers.
      - bergenty 4y ago
        Own private for each of those like I do right now…
        bumby 4y ago
        That’s wonderful but I don’t think it’s representative. It’s basically just a weird flex at a certain point to use that as a societal goal post. I’d love to have my own airport and marina, but I’m not sure that’s the goals we should be using to create a society.
JackFr 4y ago
You better tell that to the people living in the county with the highest per capita income. Message to Manhattan residents -- you're failures!
analognoise 4y ago
Being that close to other people sucks, and so do housing associations. You get neighbors screaming and fighting, playing music at 2am, apartments turned into meth labs with explosive toxic chemicals, dangerous predators can be right next door, people who don't take care of themselves and give your whole unit rats/bedbugs/insects, people who don't know you should fix water issues and cause mold, roof assessments that can be tens of thousands of dollars surprise! That you're forced to pay... It isn't some fairy land where we all love plants and hold hands in our communal space - living close to other people IS failure.
- mywittyname 4y ago
  This is all stuff that happens with houses also. I've had a house down the street blow up, dealt with shitty neighbors blasting music at all hours (or fighting/insulting each other), had my house flood due to neighbor's construction. And have to deal with property line issues on top of it all. We live in a society, and that means dealing with people. Even if you live in a place where the nearest neighbor is half a mile away, you're going to have issues with someone. We used to have issues with people riding dirt bikes and trucks on our land, kids breaking in to have parties in our woods, people with horses who shit on the streets, and lots of illegal dumping. The world is full of shit heads.
  - analognoise 4y ago
    One person in your apartment complex is filthy and has bugs, everyone in your building has bugs. I don't have that problem in my house. Also a house blowing up due to cooking meth - down the street, which is not connected to your house - is a much better situation. Dirt bikes and teenagers partying the woods is definitely the better option too, imo. "We live in a society" - true but one of these things is clearly better than the other. It's just not very convincing to think people want to be stuffed into apartments.

Because Americans regard living in anything other than a detached house as a failure.

by badpun 4y ago

Because Americans regard living in anything other than a detached house as a failure.

JohnJamesRambo 4y ago

Well would you want to share a wall and roof with most Americans?

mym1990 4y ago
CyberDildonics 4y ago
What would possess someone to say this? You think there is something different about americans or that americans don't live in apartments?
- JohnJamesRambo 4y ago
  I just go to Walmart often. And the wonderful solitude and quiet of my old house in a dying town contrasts sharply with my college years living in apartments.
- bumby 4y ago
  I do think there is something different that leads Americans to desire homes and consider apartment living a failure. Some of it is the rhetoric about owning a home being part of the American Dream. Some of it is about the nature of the US housing market being a such an avenue to wealth (Americans have a disproportionate amount of their wealth wrapped up in their home). Some of it may be the individualistic mindset.
- fragmede 4y ago
  American apartments in general are shoddily constructed and thus are a lower quality of living. There's no getting around that. Walls that are paper thin with no insulation so you can listen in on your neighbor's phone calls. Poorly done ceilings/floors so the upstairs neighbors' kids running around wakes you up in the morning. Single pane glass so heating/cooling bill is expensive, and the sounds of the street are audible throughout the day (you never want to live above a bus stop). Neighbors from all walks of life, which can be a nightmare if those walks of life include drug dealers and addicts and domestic violence, with norecourse from the police. No elevators up to the fifth floor. No trash pickup for large items. Shite public transportation and no good parking options. Horrible corporate landlord management company to contend with. I would love to live in an apartment complex in, say, Sweden, but there's a huge cultural component to apartment living in America that would have to change before it matches apartment living elsewhere. Even if building codes changed tonight it would still wouldn't address the issues of city design/public transportation that hurt the very notion of living that tightly together to begin with. It's just not at all convenient to live in an apartment complex that's miles away from the nearest public transportation hub or even a strip mall.
  - CyberDildonics 4y ago
    > Walls that are paper thin with no insulation so you can listen in on your neighbor's phone calls. These sound like wild assumptions with nothing to back them up. https://basc.pnnl.gov/code-compliance/air-sealing-and-insulating-common-walls-party-walls-multi-family-buildings-code https://basc.pnnl.gov/code-compliance/air-sealing-and-insula... "Many builders are insulating these walls fully for sound proofing purposes per the International Building Code (IBC), Section 1207, Sound Transmission walls, partitions, and floor/ceiling assemblies separating dwelling units from each other must have a sound transmission class (STC) of not less than 50 for airborne noise when tested in accordance with ASTM E 90." Also the comment I replied to said 'americans' not 'in america'
- pandaman 4y ago
  Home ownership rate in the US had been over 60% for a long time. Because of that there is a high chance that your apartment neighbors grew up in a detached home and have no habits that apartment dwellers teach their children. Combined with the fact that apartments are usually temporary accommodations this can produce very disruptive neighbors. This is not unique to America, all the countries that went through rapid urbanization that moved millions of former farmers from detached homes into city apartments have an archetype of a rural rube unable to accommodate to communal living with strangers.
SapporoChris 4y ago
Apartments do not have to be noisy. A well built apartment with concrete floors and concrete interior walls greatly reduces noise. There are many other things that can be done to reduce noise, double pane (or triple) windows, carpeted floors, apartment noise policy.

anthlax 4y ago

Quite the broad generalization! What say you about American cities? The Americans living there are viewed as failures by other 5, as well as themselves?

cameronh90 4y ago

How would I let my pets run around in the garden? Where do I put my wood fired pizza oven? How do I teach my kids how to grow potatoes and build things? Where do I put the koi pond? There is perhaps some platonic ideal of an apartment where you can live a similar quality of life to a house. But in the reality that we actually live in currently, living in a house usually has a much better quality of life so it's natural that people would prefer it.

ben_w 4y ago
It depends what you want from a home. I'd prefer a house than my current apartment, but a different set of preferences makes apartments perfect (and more people in apartments necessarily make it easier to supply houses for those of us who prefer houses).
EricDeb 4y ago
Europeans don't need those things
- cameronh90 4y ago
  I am European.
- dns_snek 4y ago
  What a ridiculous generalization. Everyone has their own preferences, needs, and wants.
bumby 4y ago
There are places that do many of those things, but in a community format. My SO and still think back to how great it was to have an apartment with a park next door where we could let our dogs run. They had more space there than our current home. I've never seen a public wood fired pizza oven but community bbq's were pretty standard at our apartments in the past. We have a community projects place that gives us the opportunity to do all kinds of woodworking (my personal hobby) without spending tons on equipment. Plus there's always people there more competent that I can learn from. We have a seed-sharing repository in our local library and the ag school has plenty of gardening resources. I think what you're talking about is certainly possible, but it takes a concerted approach to meet the needs of a community. I tend to think people in the US prefer housing because there is a much more individualistic mindset combined with relative affluence that gives people the option to eschew many community approaches.

bergenty 4y ago

I hate apartment living. People on all sides, you have to live like a mouse, no room for any activities.

russh 4y ago
Have you thought about bunk beds? I saw a documentary awhile ago where it was discovered that switching to bunk beds creates ample room for activities.
- bergenty 4y ago
  I mean like a garden, a pool, a wood/metal working shop, gun range, kids play area, badminton court etc.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Are you saying you want access to each of those or you want your own private resource for each of those? They are very different questions with different answers.
    - bergenty 4y ago
      Own private for each of those like I do right now…
      - bumby 4y ago
        That’s wonderful but I don’t think it’s representative. It’s basically just a weird flex at a certain point to use that as a societal goal post. I’d love to have my own airport and marina, but I’m not sure that’s the goals we should be using to create a society.

JackFr 4y ago

You better tell that to the people living in the county with the highest per capita income. Message to Manhattan residents -- you're failures!

analognoise 4y ago

Being that close to other people sucks, and so do housing associations. You get neighbors screaming and fighting, playing music at 2am, apartments turned into meth labs with explosive toxic chemicals, dangerous predators can be right next door, people who don't take care of themselves and give your whole unit rats/bedbugs/insects, people who don't know you should fix water issues and cause mold, roof assessments that can be tens of thousands of dollars surprise! That you're forced to pay... It isn't some fairy land where we all love plants and hold hands in our communal space - living close to other people IS failure.

mywittyname 4y ago
This is all stuff that happens with houses also. I've had a house down the street blow up, dealt with shitty neighbors blasting music at all hours (or fighting/insulting each other), had my house flood due to neighbor's construction. And have to deal with property line issues on top of it all. We live in a society, and that means dealing with people. Even if you live in a place where the nearest neighbor is half a mile away, you're going to have issues with someone. We used to have issues with people riding dirt bikes and trucks on our land, kids breaking in to have parties in our woods, people with horses who shit on the streets, and lots of illegal dumping. The world is full of shit heads.
- analognoise 4y ago
  One person in your apartment complex is filthy and has bugs, everyone in your building has bugs. I don't have that problem in my house. Also a house blowing up due to cooking meth - down the street, which is not connected to your house - is a much better situation. Dirt bikes and teenagers partying the woods is definitely the better option too, imo. "We live in a society" - true but one of these things is clearly better than the other. It's just not very convincing to think people want to be stuffed into apartments.