3 ms·

>The human body is incredibly adaptive They say this and then don't address the elephant in the room: the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan.

>The human body is incredibly adaptive They say this and then don't address the elephant in the room: the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan. Additionally, "completely sufficient to sustain the body" is about the lowest barrier to entry one can set. People aren't interested in sustenance alone, even if you take away cultural factors.

jossclimb 4y ago
Source for the 'the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan.' please?
- top_kekeroni_m8 4y ago
  Source: trust me, bro.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-current-and-former-vegetarians-and-vegans/ https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-cu... Those numbers are ridiculously high when considering institutes are starting to push veganism but conveniently skip the fact veganism is difficult to maintain even for upper middle class people with almost everything available to them. It's like the Scrum/Agile debate all over again, but in the form of diets. Yes, that means the diet itself may not be the problem, but good luck changing the environment.
adrian_b 4y ago
I have known a few vegans who developed weird health problems after a year or two of vegan diet, but I believe that this happened precisely because they had a careless attitude about the necessity of supplementing a vegan diet. I have also transitioned to a vegan diet, but only after studying very carefully all the available information, so besides food made from vegetables I take 10 chemical substances about which there is reasonable certainty that they are either necessary or beneficial for vegans, because the plants either do not contain them or they contain them in too small quantities, and the human body either cannot make them or it can make them only in too small quantities. DHA and EPA are among those 10.
- arunix 4y ago
  What are the other 8 supplements you take?
  - adrian_b 4y ago
    The complete list includes 4 mineral salts, sodium chloride (yes, the common salt belongs here, because salt may be not necessary for those who eat enough animal food, but an adequate amount, neither too low, nor too high, e.g. 4 to 5 g/day is mandatory for vegans), calcium citrate, potassium iodate (or iodide) and sodium selenate, then 3 fatty substances, DHA, EPA and cholecalciferol (a.k.a. vitamin D3), then finally 3 organic compounds of nitrogen, which happen to be abundant in liver, choline bitartrate, taurine and cobalamine (a.k.a. vitamin B12). All these have been shown to have significantly lower levels in the body of the vegans who do not take the corresponding supplements. Especially the need for a calcium supplementation is often overlooked, which leads to a higher risk of fractures.
    - _c3ag 4y ago
      if you really take care of your health, independent of eating meat or not, being vegan is about supplementing b12 and that is all, for the most cases. animals on livestock are supplemented with nutrients (specially grain fed) just like you could supplement yourself now about calcium intake, if you really take a look, most of the claims are hypothetical and require further studies to comprove, as well some findings like this; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350341/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350341/
      - adrian_b 4y ago
        Thanks for the link, but even this study, which claims to have not found large differences between vegans and omnivores, still reports that e.g. the prevalence of osteoporosis in the femoral neck (which increases the risk of hip fracture) was 1/7 among omnivores, but more than 1/6 among vegans. A vegan does not need a large amount per day of calcium supplementation, but all the studies, including this one, demonstrate that a small amount of additional calcium is necessary to reduce the risk of bone fractures to the same level as for omnivores.

jossclimb 4y ago

Source for the 'the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan.' please?

top_kekeroni_m8 4y ago
Source: trust me, bro.
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-current-and-former-vegetarians-and-vegans/ https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-cu... Those numbers are ridiculously high when considering institutes are starting to push veganism but conveniently skip the fact veganism is difficult to maintain even for upper middle class people with almost everything available to them. It's like the Scrum/Agile debate all over again, but in the form of diets. Yes, that means the diet itself may not be the problem, but good luck changing the environment.

adrian_b 4y ago

I have known a few vegans who developed weird health problems after a year or two of vegan diet, but I believe that this happened precisely because they had a careless attitude about the necessity of supplementing a vegan diet. I have also transitioned to a vegan diet, but only after studying very carefully all the available information, so besides food made from vegetables I take 10 chemical substances about which there is reasonable certainty that they are either necessary or beneficial for vegans, because the plants either do not contain them or they contain them in too small quantities, and the human body either cannot make them or it can make them only in too small quantities. DHA and EPA are among those 10.

arunix 4y ago
What are the other 8 supplements you take?
- adrian_b 4y ago
  The complete list includes 4 mineral salts, sodium chloride (yes, the common salt belongs here, because salt may be not necessary for those who eat enough animal food, but an adequate amount, neither too low, nor too high, e.g. 4 to 5 g/day is mandatory for vegans), calcium citrate, potassium iodate (or iodide) and sodium selenate, then 3 fatty substances, DHA, EPA and cholecalciferol (a.k.a. vitamin D3), then finally 3 organic compounds of nitrogen, which happen to be abundant in liver, choline bitartrate, taurine and cobalamine (a.k.a. vitamin B12). All these have been shown to have significantly lower levels in the body of the vegans who do not take the corresponding supplements. Especially the need for a calcium supplementation is often overlooked, which leads to a higher risk of fractures.
  - _c3ag 4y ago
    if you really take care of your health, independent of eating meat or not, being vegan is about supplementing b12 and that is all, for the most cases. animals on livestock are supplemented with nutrients (specially grain fed) just like you could supplement yourself now about calcium intake, if you really take a look, most of the claims are hypothetical and require further studies to comprove, as well some findings like this; https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350341/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19350341/
    - adrian_b 4y ago
      Thanks for the link, but even this study, which claims to have not found large differences between vegans and omnivores, still reports that e.g. the prevalence of osteoporosis in the femoral neck (which increases the risk of hip fracture) was 1/7 among omnivores, but more than 1/6 among vegans. A vegan does not need a large amount per day of calcium supplementation, but all the studies, including this one, demonstrate that a small amount of additional calcium is necessary to reduce the risk of bone fractures to the same level as for omnivores.