10 ms·

Omega-3 index is better correlated with overall health than O3/O6 ratio. Also, flaxseed is a source of ALAs whereas early all O3 health benefits come from DHA/E

Omega-3 index is better correlated with overall health than O3/O6 ratio. Also, flaxseed is a source of ALAs whereas early all O3 health benefits come from DHA/EPA. A great source of info is Dr Rhonda Patrick's interviews w/ Dr Bill Harris. Here is a short clip - https://share.descript.com/view/2w6WidsYZlT https://share.descript.com/view/2w6WidsYZlT

strken 4y ago
ALA is metabolised to EPA and DHA, albeit in a pretty lossy way. Is there some reason it wouldn't work as well?
- astrange 4y ago
  The rate for that seems to depend on the person, and IIRC has been suggested to only happen for women.
  - hosh 4y ago
    It happens for men, just that it is a low conversion rate. The conversion rate is even higher for women who are pregnent or breastfeeding, which makes sense from an natural adaptation point of view. You can also elevate the level of DHA in chicken eggs (up to a point) by feeding the chickens flax seed in their diet. Seems like DHA is nutritious for any young, growing brains. The key thing about the ALA conversion in women is that you're not going to OD on it. Having too much DHA gives you insomnia (though, that is not such a bad thing if by circumstances, you are already sleep deprived). I havn't seen any papers on it, but my personal experience is that the ratio of DHA to EPA is also important for mental health. EPA seems to help with smoothing out burnout and protect against spiraling into depression.
hervature 4y ago
Yes, I know, we can keep going down this rabbit hole. Turns out that a completely vegan diet, which has no DHA, is completely sufficient to sustain the body [1]. The human body is incredibly adaptive and increases its efficiency of converting ALA to DHA/EPA. This conversation I think will shake down how the heme iron/non-heme iron efficacy research. A study long ago showed that non-heme uptake was much poorer than heme iron and so the conclusion was something like "you need to eat 10x the non-heme iron" which has since become "conventional" wisdom. When you remove heme iron (stop eating meat), your body is able to absorb non-heme iron at the same rate. We call this a "smart drug" which changes uptake based on concentration levels. Basically, the study participants at the time ate so much meat that their iron levels were so high that non-heme iron is not processed. Edit: The other thing I wanted to say is 1 tbsp of flaxseed has 2.4g of ALA and that the adequate intake of ALA is 1.6g and 0.3g of DHA/EPA. If we assume a 10% conversion rate for both (depends on many factors and a tad high), you get 0.24g of DHA/EPA. So, 2 tbsp of flaxseed and you're good. I put it in my smoothie in the morning. [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16087975/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16087975/
- hosh 4y ago
  You can get DHA from algea sources and still eat vegan. There is also a sex-linked difference between ALA conversion to DHA/EPA, with women, and women who are pregnant or brestfeeding converting significantly more ALA to DHA than men. Men were converting far less than 10% while women were converting more than 10%.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  >The human body is incredibly adaptive They say this and then don't address the elephant in the room: the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan. Additionally, "completely sufficient to sustain the body" is about the lowest barrier to entry one can set. People aren't interested in sustenance alone, even if you take away cultural factors.
  - jossclimb 4y ago
    Source for the 'the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan.' please?
    - top_kekeroni_m8 4y ago
      Source: trust me, bro.
    - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
      https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-current-and-former-vegetarians-and-vegans/ https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-cu... Those numbers are ridiculously high when considering institutes are starting to push veganism but conveniently skip the fact veganism is difficult to maintain even for upper middle class people with almost everything available to them. It's like the Scrum/Agile debate all over again, but in the form of diets. Yes, that means the diet itself may not be the problem, but good luck changing the environment.
  - adrian_b 4y ago
    I have known a few vegans who developed weird health problems after a year or two of vegan diet, but I believe that this happened precisely because they had a careless attitude about the necessity of supplementing a vegan diet. I have also transitioned to a vegan diet, but only after studying very carefully all the available information, so besides food made from vegetables I take 10 chemical substances about which there is reasonable certainty that they are either necessary or beneficial for vegans, because the plants either do not contain them or they contain them in too small quantities, and the human body either cannot make them or it can make them only in too small quantities. DHA and EPA are among those 10.

strken 4y ago

ALA is metabolised to EPA and DHA, albeit in a pretty lossy way. Is there some reason it wouldn't work as well?

astrange 4y ago
The rate for that seems to depend on the person, and IIRC has been suggested to only happen for women.
- hosh 4y ago
  It happens for men, just that it is a low conversion rate. The conversion rate is even higher for women who are pregnent or breastfeeding, which makes sense from an natural adaptation point of view. You can also elevate the level of DHA in chicken eggs (up to a point) by feeding the chickens flax seed in their diet. Seems like DHA is nutritious for any young, growing brains. The key thing about the ALA conversion in women is that you're not going to OD on it. Having too much DHA gives you insomnia (though, that is not such a bad thing if by circumstances, you are already sleep deprived). I havn't seen any papers on it, but my personal experience is that the ratio of DHA to EPA is also important for mental health. EPA seems to help with smoothing out burnout and protect against spiraling into depression.

hervature 4y ago

Yes, I know, we can keep going down this rabbit hole. Turns out that a completely vegan diet, which has no DHA, is completely sufficient to sustain the body [1]. The human body is incredibly adaptive and increases its efficiency of converting ALA to DHA/EPA. This conversation I think will shake down how the heme iron/non-heme iron efficacy research. A study long ago showed that non-heme uptake was much poorer than heme iron and so the conclusion was something like "you need to eat 10x the non-heme iron" which has since become "conventional" wisdom. When you remove heme iron (stop eating meat), your body is able to absorb non-heme iron at the same rate. We call this a "smart drug" which changes uptake based on concentration levels. Basically, the study participants at the time ate so much meat that their iron levels were so high that non-heme iron is not processed. Edit: The other thing I wanted to say is 1 tbsp of flaxseed has 2.4g of ALA and that the adequate intake of ALA is 1.6g and 0.3g of DHA/EPA. If we assume a 10% conversion rate for both (depends on many factors and a tad high), you get 0.24g of DHA/EPA. So, 2 tbsp of flaxseed and you're good. I put it in my smoothie in the morning. [1] - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16087975/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16087975/

hosh 4y ago
You can get DHA from algea sources and still eat vegan. There is also a sex-linked difference between ALA conversion to DHA/EPA, with women, and women who are pregnant or brestfeeding converting significantly more ALA to DHA than men. Men were converting far less than 10% while women were converting more than 10%.
BlargMcLarg 4y ago
>The human body is incredibly adaptive They say this and then don't address the elephant in the room: the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan. Additionally, "completely sufficient to sustain the body" is about the lowest barrier to entry one can set. People aren't interested in sustenance alone, even if you take away cultural factors.
- jossclimb 4y ago
  Source for the 'the huge fall-out rate concerning vegans going ex-vegan.' please?
  - top_kekeroni_m8 4y ago
    Source: trust me, bro.
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-current-and-former-vegetarians-and-vegans/ https://faunalytics.org/a-summary-of-faunalytics-study-of-cu... Those numbers are ridiculously high when considering institutes are starting to push veganism but conveniently skip the fact veganism is difficult to maintain even for upper middle class people with almost everything available to them. It's like the Scrum/Agile debate all over again, but in the form of diets. Yes, that means the diet itself may not be the problem, but good luck changing the environment.
- adrian_b 4y ago
  I have known a few vegans who developed weird health problems after a year or two of vegan diet, but I believe that this happened precisely because they had a careless attitude about the necessity of supplementing a vegan diet. I have also transitioned to a vegan diet, but only after studying very carefully all the available information, so besides food made from vegetables I take 10 chemical substances about which there is reasonable certainty that they are either necessary or beneficial for vegans, because the plants either do not contain them or they contain them in too small quantities, and the human body either cannot make them or it can make them only in too small quantities. DHA and EPA are among those 10.