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Morally (as opposed to politically) the theory is as follows: society forbids people from selling their body — sex, organs, wombs — to nullify any marketplace w

Morally (as opposed to politically) the theory is as follows: society forbids people from selling their body — sex, organs, wombs — to nullify any marketplace where an evil person with money can exploit someone else who desperately needs money. This sucks for the people who aren’t in desperate need for the money and instead have made a lifestyle choice to sell their kidneys / intimacy / children but the state can’t reasonably decide who does and does not need protection from exploitation at the point of use, so they either over-protect everyone or under-protect no one. That’s the moral choice here — how much freedom are we willing to relinquish in order to protect the vulnerable from exploitation. It’s not about whether we consider the exploited act to be moral or not, at least from a rational point of view.

hackerlight 4y ago
This argument was used against alcohol in the early 1900s, according to Smashing the Liquor Machine. According to them, US alcohol prohibition was lobbied for, in some part, by the left, because they saw it as exploitation. We saw how that turned out. The same thing happened in Russia, where the Bolsheviks banned alcohol for a period, under the same justification. If a policy is known to lead to bad outcomes, it is not a moral policy, no matter the theory behind it. The left has started to realize this. That's why they now advocate for decriminalization, public health campaigns, and mental health support.
- gorgoiler 4y ago
  I agree with you, for what it’s worth, re: booze and drugs. Bartenders and dispensaries aren’t predators. Pimps and organ harvesters are.
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    Whether a person/group is defined with the label "predator" is uninteresting. Because that is about definitions of words and categories, which has no consequence on policy. The right question is what policies help people, and what policies hurt people. Morally charged judgements cloud our thinking. I can easily argue that alcohol sales are predatory. They are often selling to alcoholics who are damaging their bodies. They contribute to drunk driving deaths and domestic violence. But there is no policy corollary or implication to me doing that.
  - MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
    There are only bartenders and dispensaries because it's legal. People made the same argument before for bootleggers and drug dealers.
bergenty 4y ago
The whole moral crap is bullshit. Lots of European countries have gotten around the issue of pimps by legally mandating that sex needs to be sold on a 1:1 basis. I’m willing to put up with fringe human trafficking to be able to go downtown and buy sex. You can’t ban the best things in life and expect people to be happy over the long term.

hackerlight 4y ago

This argument was used against alcohol in the early 1900s, according to Smashing the Liquor Machine. According to them, US alcohol prohibition was lobbied for, in some part, by the left, because they saw it as exploitation. We saw how that turned out. The same thing happened in Russia, where the Bolsheviks banned alcohol for a period, under the same justification. If a policy is known to lead to bad outcomes, it is not a moral policy, no matter the theory behind it. The left has started to realize this. That's why they now advocate for decriminalization, public health campaigns, and mental health support.

gorgoiler 4y ago
I agree with you, for what it’s worth, re: booze and drugs. Bartenders and dispensaries aren’t predators. Pimps and organ harvesters are.
- hackerlight 4y ago
  Whether a person/group is defined with the label "predator" is uninteresting. Because that is about definitions of words and categories, which has no consequence on policy. The right question is what policies help people, and what policies hurt people. Morally charged judgements cloud our thinking. I can easily argue that alcohol sales are predatory. They are often selling to alcoholics who are damaging their bodies. They contribute to drunk driving deaths and domestic violence. But there is no policy corollary or implication to me doing that.
- MonkeyMalarky 4y ago
  There are only bartenders and dispensaries because it's legal. People made the same argument before for bootleggers and drug dealers.

bergenty 4y ago

The whole moral crap is bullshit. Lots of European countries have gotten around the issue of pimps by legally mandating that sex needs to be sold on a 1:1 basis. I’m willing to put up with fringe human trafficking to be able to go downtown and buy sex. You can’t ban the best things in life and expect people to be happy over the long term.