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I have a 2020 BMW, with the same features. I have never had an issue in over 30,000 miles of driving. My previous generation BMW, also similarly equipped, did n

I have a 2020 BMW, with the same features. I have never had an issue in over 30,000 miles of driving. My previous generation BMW, also similarly equipped, did not have these issues. It did trigger the rear collision alert a handful of times, although all that does is tighten the seatbells and beep (i think). So, these features can work reliably, and I don't think using a poor implementation is useful in this conversation. The reality is that tesla has removed sensors from their playbook, which can only decrease the information the car has to work with.

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
> 2020 BMW I generally find that the luxury European makes (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Porsche) have more well-put-together cars than Tesla does, despite all of Tesla's posturing about being a 'premium car company'. I heard it put quite succinctly: 'Tesla is a software company that decided to build cars'. Not to mention, it is an American software company that decided to build cars in the US, and the person I spoke to didn't have a very good opinion of American makes in general (I concur). Tesla was at the forefront of EV innovation about 5-7 years ago, but today, I'd much rather buy an EQE, an i4, or an e-tron (or if I can ever afford it, a Taycan Turbo S).
- sshine 4y ago
  > I'd much rather buy an EQE, an i4, or an e-tron (or if I can ever afford it, a Taycan Turbo S). A comparison of what it would cost me locally to get these cars (base cost): Tesla model 3: From $55k, 455 km range Tesla model Y: From $58k, 488 km range BMW i4: From $65k, 470 km range Mercedes-Benz EQE: From $85k, 525 km range Audi e-tron: From $131k, 365 km range Porsche Taycan Turbo S: From $276k, 560 km range --- Of these, the e-tron is overpriced, even compared to non-electric Audis. I'd be happy to own any of these. But you're mentioning 18-38% more expensive cars (disregarding Taycan; Taycan should be compared to Tesla Roadster: $211k, 997 km range). The Tesla selling point for me is a highly competitive range and the most beautiful interior (subjective, but alternatively: most simple) at the lowest cost among these luxury electric cars. > Tesla is a software company that decided to build cars Companies that realise they're a software company when software is at their core have an edge. Insurance companies, for example, should be wise to do the same.
  - delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
    > what it would cost After having test-driven and being driven in cars, I have come to the conclusion that one generally gets what one pays for when it comes to cars. > most beautiful interior (subjective, but alternatively: most simple I like traditional interiors with knobs and buttons for AV and AC controls, and the singular giant iPad-esque display on Teslas is a complete deal-breaker for me. > range I live in a dense city-state: range is a moot discussion when I have a petrol station with EV chargers every 2-3 km. At any rate, I get your point about the alternatives to the Model 3 being more expensive with less range, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make for drastically improved quality control and (in my opinion) a drastically better driving and passenger experience.
    - sshine 4y ago
      > I live in a dense city-state: range is a moot discussion when I have a petrol station with EV chargers every 2-3 km. That's a completely fair point. But if we're not comparing high-range EVs, why not go with a Renaut Zoe ($39k, 200 km range) or the like? I've used Zoes in city environments, and the newer models are overwhelmingly pleasant. E.g. they cover internal panels with fabric instead of leather/pleather to create a very nice atmosphere at no cost. Their small size make them easier to park, and you can't go fast in cities. > the alternatives to the Model 3 being more expensive with less range I didn't make that point (except comparing the e-tron). I also prefers knobs and buttons. But I prefer fewer of them. The simplicity of design is not just controls, but visual clutter in terms of the amount of lines created by overlapping panels of different materials. Classic car brands have a legacy to represent so that new Audis feel like old Audis on the inside. Tesla might've taken it a bit too far, hiding things behind a screen, creating a maze of non-tactile menu systems instead.
  - hulitu 4y ago
    > Companies that realise they're a software company when software is at their core have an edge. SW for automotive is a different beast than SW for Windows or Linux.
  - ianai 4y ago
    You shouldn’t compare roadster to anything because it doesn’t exist yet. It’s at best unfair, and ultimately the definition of unrealistic until roadsters are delivered.
heliodor 4y ago
That's neat that your car has a rear collision alert. It's actually useful and if you have the presence of mind to react quickly, you should put your head back against the headrest in order to prevent whiplash.
- ianai 4y ago
  And roll forward if clear/safe. Had the presence of mind for that once and it haunts me to this day.

delta_p_delta_x 4y ago

> 2020 BMW I generally find that the luxury European makes (BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Audi, Porsche) have more well-put-together cars than Tesla does, despite all of Tesla's posturing about being a 'premium car company'. I heard it put quite succinctly: 'Tesla is a software company that decided to build cars'. Not to mention, it is an American software company that decided to build cars in the US, and the person I spoke to didn't have a very good opinion of American makes in general (I concur). Tesla was at the forefront of EV innovation about 5-7 years ago, but today, I'd much rather buy an EQE, an i4, or an e-tron (or if I can ever afford it, a Taycan Turbo S).

sshine 4y ago
> I'd much rather buy an EQE, an i4, or an e-tron (or if I can ever afford it, a Taycan Turbo S). A comparison of what it would cost me locally to get these cars (base cost): Tesla model 3: From $55k, 455 km range Tesla model Y: From $58k, 488 km range BMW i4: From $65k, 470 km range Mercedes-Benz EQE: From $85k, 525 km range Audi e-tron: From $131k, 365 km range Porsche Taycan Turbo S: From $276k, 560 km range --- Of these, the e-tron is overpriced, even compared to non-electric Audis. I'd be happy to own any of these. But you're mentioning 18-38% more expensive cars (disregarding Taycan; Taycan should be compared to Tesla Roadster: $211k, 997 km range). The Tesla selling point for me is a highly competitive range and the most beautiful interior (subjective, but alternatively: most simple) at the lowest cost among these luxury electric cars. > Tesla is a software company that decided to build cars Companies that realise they're a software company when software is at their core have an edge. Insurance companies, for example, should be wise to do the same.
- delta_p_delta_x 4y ago
  > what it would cost After having test-driven and being driven in cars, I have come to the conclusion that one generally gets what one pays for when it comes to cars. > most beautiful interior (subjective, but alternatively: most simple I like traditional interiors with knobs and buttons for AV and AC controls, and the singular giant iPad-esque display on Teslas is a complete deal-breaker for me. > range I live in a dense city-state: range is a moot discussion when I have a petrol station with EV chargers every 2-3 km. At any rate, I get your point about the alternatives to the Model 3 being more expensive with less range, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make for drastically improved quality control and (in my opinion) a drastically better driving and passenger experience.
  - sshine 4y ago
    > I live in a dense city-state: range is a moot discussion when I have a petrol station with EV chargers every 2-3 km. That's a completely fair point. But if we're not comparing high-range EVs, why not go with a Renaut Zoe ($39k, 200 km range) or the like? I've used Zoes in city environments, and the newer models are overwhelmingly pleasant. E.g. they cover internal panels with fabric instead of leather/pleather to create a very nice atmosphere at no cost. Their small size make them easier to park, and you can't go fast in cities. > the alternatives to the Model 3 being more expensive with less range I didn't make that point (except comparing the e-tron). I also prefers knobs and buttons. But I prefer fewer of them. The simplicity of design is not just controls, but visual clutter in terms of the amount of lines created by overlapping panels of different materials. Classic car brands have a legacy to represent so that new Audis feel like old Audis on the inside. Tesla might've taken it a bit too far, hiding things behind a screen, creating a maze of non-tactile menu systems instead.
- hulitu 4y ago
  > Companies that realise they're a software company when software is at their core have an edge. SW for automotive is a different beast than SW for Windows or Linux.
- ianai 4y ago
  You shouldn’t compare roadster to anything because it doesn’t exist yet. It’s at best unfair, and ultimately the definition of unrealistic until roadsters are delivered.

heliodor 4y ago

That's neat that your car has a rear collision alert. It's actually useful and if you have the presence of mind to react quickly, you should put your head back against the headrest in order to prevent whiplash.

ianai 4y ago
And roll forward if clear/safe. Had the presence of mind for that once and it haunts me to this day.