4 ms·

Direct marketing doesn't seem like a very good method to attract people. Linux needs to do one thing to make it a viable option: Make steam and all windows bas

Direct marketing doesn't seem like a very good method to attract people. Linux needs to do one thing to make it a viable option: Make steam and all windows based steam games work out of the box. Linux needs to do one thing to win the consumer market: Make all steam games work better than on windows out of the box. If linux can do that, they can win a market that is not the server market. If Linux cannot do that, then people are trapped on Windows for the foreseeable future. That is the "did we solve your problem. y/n?" of the desktop environment. It is the only question that matters. I don't see the purpose in marketing Linux for non server purposes until that hurdle has been jumped.

headsoup 4y ago
To be honest, it's closer than you'd think. I find very few games now that I can't run through Steam+Proton, to the point I forget I'm not on the 'Native' OS for them. And what I've also found is that issues that affect my games on Linux Steam are usually also reported for Windows (i.e. black screen on loading, certain freezes).
- acomjean 4y ago
  Steam is remarkably good at running games on linux. I've been using "heroic games launcher" with GOG.com and epic gamesto good effect. I have a steam deck and it occasionally asks me how well the game I just left ran, cloud sourcing. The steam deck is great, highly recommended (my first unit had a bad battery, but valve handled it quite well and after trying some mitigations, just replaced it).
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  Pretty interesting. I took a look through: https://www.protondb.com/explore https://www.protondb.com/explore and I was fairly surprised. I definitely expect the 20% tail to be 80% of the effort. I've also found that often there would be a lag time between the windows release (for total war warhammer for example) and the non windows releases. I've also found OSX versions of things to be a bit buggier (guild wars 2 for example), I assume that is no different for Linux. Reactive solutions to games not running (as opposed to games working by default) seems like the type of behavior that would continue to prevent Linux from being a standard choice over windows. The small frictions build up until you don't want to deal with it anymore. You are right though, closer than I thought.
  - jeppester 4y ago
    Making so many games work has been a decade long effort. It's been worked on forever. That it works so well is as close to a miracle as you can get with software. What is needed is not "Linux making it work", it's developers making it work on Linux. And it's actually happening, albeit at a slow pace. Recently the Steam Deck has been very successful at convincing game devs to put in an effort - for the benefit of all Linux users. If Linux had MS Office and the Adobe suite, there would hardly be a reason to stay on Windows anymore. I'm sure Microsoft's reluctance to bring office over - despite their self-proclaimed "love of linux" is because they know it would be a nail in Window's coffin.
thesandlord 4y ago
The Steam Deck is basically this. IMO it runs games in Linux better than Windows (especially with gamescope and the instant sleep and resume feature) and has played every game I have thrown at it. I assume at the pace Valve is updating SteamOS and Proton it will play everything but the super long tail of games soon.
BarryMilo 4y ago
People aren't "trapped" on Windows, by and large they just don't know about Linux. Awareness is the first step. It should answer the needs of the vast majority of people, but they won't consider switching if they think Windows is the only OS.
- hayst4ck 4y ago
  I don't think that's true at all, personally. I think that attitude is pure hubris (not meant in an attacking way, but in a feedback way). I tried to move my mom to Linux (ubuntu) and she absolutely hated it. Nothing "just worked." Everything was a "new learning opportunity." I came to the conclusion it was the wrong OS for her myself, despite my offer to give her any kind of support she might need. There is a whole concept of "Killer app" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application) that the industry was founded on. The linux desktop does not AFAIK have any kind of killer app. The value of running a linux desktop is clear for devs and security professionals, but it is not clear at all for "normal" people. The killer apps for windows are Steam, MS Office, and Firefox/Chrome, to a smaller degree active directory. The only viable path that I can see for linux is "free" privacy respecting operating system choice, but in order to be a choice it must run exe's without any extra configs, check boxes, pop up windows, or anything else that would indicate something should be understood or configured. It must be able to understand a printer is on the network without any effort at all. It must take no more than 3-5 clicks and a google search to be running Firefox. Awareness before feature parity (runs MS office, runs steam) increases resistance through bad experiences. If someone has a bad experience, they will be less interested even if it gets better later. I feel like your comment is not very different than "awareness of rsync is the first step to moving files around."
- titoCA321 4y ago
  Some people know about Linux but aren't going to touch it and there are some that touch it but wish nothing to do with it when they aren't configuring servers. It's not necessary limited to Linux, some people use Macs when they work on PCs at the office, but the greater question is what would switching Linux provide to the switchers when you claim, "It should answer the needs of the vast majority of people". If my car is fine for my transport needs, why would I buy a truck?

headsoup 4y ago

To be honest, it's closer than you'd think. I find very few games now that I can't run through Steam+Proton, to the point I forget I'm not on the 'Native' OS for them. And what I've also found is that issues that affect my games on Linux Steam are usually also reported for Windows (i.e. black screen on loading, certain freezes).

acomjean 4y ago
Steam is remarkably good at running games on linux. I've been using "heroic games launcher" with GOG.com and epic gamesto good effect. I have a steam deck and it occasionally asks me how well the game I just left ran, cloud sourcing. The steam deck is great, highly recommended (my first unit had a bad battery, but valve handled it quite well and after trying some mitigations, just replaced it).
hayst4ck 4y ago
Pretty interesting. I took a look through: https://www.protondb.com/explore https://www.protondb.com/explore and I was fairly surprised. I definitely expect the 20% tail to be 80% of the effort. I've also found that often there would be a lag time between the windows release (for total war warhammer for example) and the non windows releases. I've also found OSX versions of things to be a bit buggier (guild wars 2 for example), I assume that is no different for Linux. Reactive solutions to games not running (as opposed to games working by default) seems like the type of behavior that would continue to prevent Linux from being a standard choice over windows. The small frictions build up until you don't want to deal with it anymore. You are right though, closer than I thought.
- jeppester 4y ago
  Making so many games work has been a decade long effort. It's been worked on forever. That it works so well is as close to a miracle as you can get with software. What is needed is not "Linux making it work", it's developers making it work on Linux. And it's actually happening, albeit at a slow pace. Recently the Steam Deck has been very successful at convincing game devs to put in an effort - for the benefit of all Linux users. If Linux had MS Office and the Adobe suite, there would hardly be a reason to stay on Windows anymore. I'm sure Microsoft's reluctance to bring office over - despite their self-proclaimed "love of linux" is because they know it would be a nail in Window's coffin.

thesandlord 4y ago

The Steam Deck is basically this. IMO it runs games in Linux better than Windows (especially with gamescope and the instant sleep and resume feature) and has played every game I have thrown at it. I assume at the pace Valve is updating SteamOS and Proton it will play everything but the super long tail of games soon.

BarryMilo 4y ago

People aren't "trapped" on Windows, by and large they just don't know about Linux. Awareness is the first step. It should answer the needs of the vast majority of people, but they won't consider switching if they think Windows is the only OS.

hayst4ck 4y ago
I don't think that's true at all, personally. I think that attitude is pure hubris (not meant in an attacking way, but in a feedback way). I tried to move my mom to Linux (ubuntu) and she absolutely hated it. Nothing "just worked." Everything was a "new learning opportunity." I came to the conclusion it was the wrong OS for her myself, despite my offer to give her any kind of support she might need. There is a whole concept of "Killer app" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killer_application) that the industry was founded on. The linux desktop does not AFAIK have any kind of killer app. The value of running a linux desktop is clear for devs and security professionals, but it is not clear at all for "normal" people. The killer apps for windows are Steam, MS Office, and Firefox/Chrome, to a smaller degree active directory. The only viable path that I can see for linux is "free" privacy respecting operating system choice, but in order to be a choice it must run exe's without any extra configs, check boxes, pop up windows, or anything else that would indicate something should be understood or configured. It must be able to understand a printer is on the network without any effort at all. It must take no more than 3-5 clicks and a google search to be running Firefox. Awareness before feature parity (runs MS office, runs steam) increases resistance through bad experiences. If someone has a bad experience, they will be less interested even if it gets better later. I feel like your comment is not very different than "awareness of rsync is the first step to moving files around."
titoCA321 4y ago
Some people know about Linux but aren't going to touch it and there are some that touch it but wish nothing to do with it when they aren't configuring servers. It's not necessary limited to Linux, some people use Macs when they work on PCs at the office, but the greater question is what would switching Linux provide to the switchers when you claim, "It should answer the needs of the vast majority of people". If my car is fine for my transport needs, why would I buy a truck?