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Oh no please politicians stop doing things your constituents want you to do in hopes of success in future re-election campaigns! Oh, wait, isn't that how it's

Oh no please politicians stop doing things your constituents want you to do in hopes of success in future re-election campaigns! Oh, wait, isn't that how it's supposed to work?

NackerHughes 4y ago
The way it's supposed to work is that politicians do things their constituents want all the time, rather than token gestures just as the time approaches when they risk being kicked out if they're unpopular.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The reality is the politicians always promise to do what people want but never quite actually do it, so that they can keep getting those people to vote for them. Works painfully well all around.
- DubiousPusher 4y ago
  I don't know of a political system which doesn't work contrary to intention. You just hope they work and try to make them better. Cursing the times they do function seems weird. Every U.S. president going back to Lincoln and before has triangulated their actions based upon the political circumstances of their moment. The Emancipation Proclamation itself was pocketed until it could be announced after a clear Union victory. I think the criticism is fine but it doesn't make Biden unique at all and keeping that context is important.
- idiotsecant 4y ago
  Sure, that would be great. It would also be great if my socks would conveniently pair themselves off and get into my dresser when I was done with laundry. In reality, systems operate according to rules. In the case of people, they will always * act in their actual or perceived self-interest. The whole point of relatively frequent elections is that we know politicians do this. We get a little honeymoon period when they are first elected, a little honeymoon period before the next election activity, and a period in the middle where they do whatever they can do satisfy whatever internal reward function they have. I am all about encouraging them to do the things I like for as long as possible. This is a thing I like. *mostly
  - adamrezich 4y ago
    how can one genuinely hold this position? just because it's the status quo, it's all we should ask of our public servants who demand that we vote for them? posts like this make me think that democracy may have been a mistake after all.
    - nawgz 4y ago
      What position exactly? That good things done for cynical reasons is superior to nothing ever done? To me that seems plainly logical I appreciate your idealistic opining but when you look at the reality of the competition, what Biden has done lately is just on another level. It’s unfortunate indeed that democracy has been so thoroughly corrupted by late stage capitalism, but it doesn’t make sense to lament the times it does something useful
    - lovich 4y ago
      As is said frequently on this forum, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
    - idiotsecant 4y ago
      I guess I concern myself less with how I think systems should operate and more with how I observe them to actually operate. If you assume that you see reality with your eyes instead of wish reality into existence I find that you generally get better results.
      - adamrezich 4y ago
        sure, but to truly observe what is actually happening, one must acknowledge that essentially nobody ever tries to truly observe what is actually happening, rather, everyone continues to willfully participate in the kayfabe delusion that elected officials Actually Do Stuff when by and large they Just Pretend To By Making Meaningless, Yet Applauded Gestures. which the not-truly-observing electorate then takes as reason to reelect them. over and over again. and nothing changes. this reality of the situation simply must be acknowledged if ones wishes to truly observe how these systems actually operate.
ekianjo 4y ago
You mean creating more debt?
- RavingGoat 4y ago
  This is actually doing the opposite though
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    oh so the bazillions of student debts magically disappear? Or they are just being paid by someone else in the end? Rhetorical question, of course.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
giantg2 4y ago
Yes and no. In general, they are. A direct democracy (or referendums etc) would more directly reflect this. Being a republic, they are supposed to also prorect the ideals/structure of the country to safeguard the rights of minority groups (not really an issue in this context, but wanted to point that out).
celdon25 4y ago
> Oh no please politicians stop doing things your constituents want you to do in hopes of success in future re-election campaigns! Can you show me to the national grassroots movement/lobby to grant pardons for federal simple marijuana possession crimes? I have a cousin who was convicted of it in 1995, and he thinks it's the reason why the federal government won't accept his application for employment. I'm not looking for the legalization movement, because that's not what we were talking about here. But I definitely want to know who the guys are that got Biden to agree to this pardon. They are clearly an effective group and I want to get involved somehow. (If they exist)

Oh no please politicians stop doing things your constituents want you to do in hopes of success in future re-election campaigns! Oh, wait, isn't that how it's supposed to work?

NackerHughes 4y ago

The way it's supposed to work is that politicians do things their constituents want all the time, rather than token gestures just as the time approaches when they risk being kicked out if they're unpopular.

bombcar 4y ago
The reality is the politicians always promise to do what people want but never quite actually do it, so that they can keep getting those people to vote for them. Works painfully well all around.
DubiousPusher 4y ago
I don't know of a political system which doesn't work contrary to intention. You just hope they work and try to make them better. Cursing the times they do function seems weird. Every U.S. president going back to Lincoln and before has triangulated their actions based upon the political circumstances of their moment. The Emancipation Proclamation itself was pocketed until it could be announced after a clear Union victory. I think the criticism is fine but it doesn't make Biden unique at all and keeping that context is important.
idiotsecant 4y ago
Sure, that would be great. It would also be great if my socks would conveniently pair themselves off and get into my dresser when I was done with laundry. In reality, systems operate according to rules. In the case of people, they will always * act in their actual or perceived self-interest. The whole point of relatively frequent elections is that we know politicians do this. We get a little honeymoon period when they are first elected, a little honeymoon period before the next election activity, and a period in the middle where they do whatever they can do satisfy whatever internal reward function they have. I am all about encouraging them to do the things I like for as long as possible. This is a thing I like. *mostly
- adamrezich 4y ago
  how can one genuinely hold this position? just because it's the status quo, it's all we should ask of our public servants who demand that we vote for them? posts like this make me think that democracy may have been a mistake after all.
  - nawgz 4y ago
    What position exactly? That good things done for cynical reasons is superior to nothing ever done? To me that seems plainly logical I appreciate your idealistic opining but when you look at the reality of the competition, what Biden has done lately is just on another level. It’s unfortunate indeed that democracy has been so thoroughly corrupted by late stage capitalism, but it doesn’t make sense to lament the times it does something useful
  - lovich 4y ago
    As is said frequently on this forum, don’t let perfect be the enemy of good
  - idiotsecant 4y ago
    I guess I concern myself less with how I think systems should operate and more with how I observe them to actually operate. If you assume that you see reality with your eyes instead of wish reality into existence I find that you generally get better results.
    - adamrezich 4y ago
      sure, but to truly observe what is actually happening, one must acknowledge that essentially nobody ever tries to truly observe what is actually happening, rather, everyone continues to willfully participate in the kayfabe delusion that elected officials Actually Do Stuff when by and large they Just Pretend To By Making Meaningless, Yet Applauded Gestures. which the not-truly-observing electorate then takes as reason to reelect them. over and over again. and nothing changes. this reality of the situation simply must be acknowledged if ones wishes to truly observe how these systems actually operate.

ekianjo 4y ago

You mean creating more debt?

RavingGoat 4y ago
This is actually doing the opposite though
- ekianjo 4y ago
  oh so the bazillions of student debts magically disappear? Or they are just being paid by someone else in the end? Rhetorical question, of course.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

giantg2 4y ago

Yes and no. In general, they are. A direct democracy (or referendums etc) would more directly reflect this. Being a republic, they are supposed to also prorect the ideals/structure of the country to safeguard the rights of minority groups (not really an issue in this context, but wanted to point that out).

celdon25 4y ago

> Oh no please politicians stop doing things your constituents want you to do in hopes of success in future re-election campaigns! Can you show me to the national grassroots movement/lobby to grant pardons for federal simple marijuana possession crimes? I have a cousin who was convicted of it in 1995, and he thinks it's the reason why the federal government won't accept his application for employment. I'm not looking for the legalization movement, because that's not what we were talking about here. But I definitely want to know who the guys are that got Biden to agree to this pardon. They are clearly an effective group and I want to get involved somehow. (If they exist)