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Since we're being anecdotal: I think that claim is jaded and angry, and makes me wonder what kinds of companies people have worked at. Honestly, I've only encou

by sbf501 4y ago

Since we're being anecdotal: I think that claim is jaded and angry, and makes me wonder what kinds of companies people have worked at. Honestly, I've only encountered this once or twice, and I've been a career engineer since 1989 at places like IBM, Intel, and Microsoft. Dozens of positions and groups, and I've never had to play politics. Maybe I've just worked at "good" companies (irony noted), but in my experience it was less about politics and more about getting shit done, and if you failed to get shit done, you were alerted to that very quickly. If you did get shit done, and got it done well, you got promoted, and were given even more shit to get done. Upper management at those big three had their game tight.

vsareto 4y ago
Just like there are loads of average developers, there are loads of average companies. You can get lucky and work at all great companies in your career. Most of us will not have enough jobs in our lives to get a representative sample. There is also a question of having different standards. Bad companies might just be bad for someone who has access to the top companies, but otherwise great for average workers.
- sbf501 4y ago
  Point taken. My comment is a good example of "tech privilege".
tayo42 4y ago
im actually amazed you never ran into politics at work. you never needed to navigate around egos to get what you want, you do every thing purely on merit, every decision is only technical? my whole career as been filled with stuff like people forcing their pet projects on the company, people hiring their friends and dealing with their in crowd
- sbf501 4y ago
  > you do every thing purely on merit, every decision is only technical? Yeah, honestly. The vast majority of my hard decisions I made were based on schedule and resources: having to kill things or move people around. The only "political" anomaly I witnessed was that it seemed the employees at the Israel Design Center at Intel were getting promoted to principal at a much faster rate, and with much less years and experience, for what didn't seem like actual merit. But that didn't impact me other than some jealousy, because the line for principal promotion in my division(s) were very long with really really smart people. And I've seen many principals get shown the door for poor performance. One possibility is that I never reached a level where politics mattered, or teams were small enough that it didn't have time to foment. And there certainly people who lived to become managers because they thought it was a status symbol, but I was happy for them to do the job. Another could be that I'm just... well, daft. Both are possible. :)
  - tayo42 4y ago
    Is there somewhere I can send a resume? Hah
- alexfromapex 4y ago
  Politics I’ve seen almost everywhere but nepotism and cronyism are horrible. I’ve experienced that firsthand at a startup, when a new CIO hired his unqualified buddies into leadership roles. One was a young female and he was a much older divorcee and it made my skin crawl.
Der_Einzige 4y ago
Intel was overran by MBA types until they got their most recent CEO, and it'll take years for them to undue that rot. If you worked in a software group at Intel after 2015 and didn't play politics, I straight up don't believe you.
- sbf501 4y ago
  I never worked for a software group at Intel. And I started there in 1989. I'm not out to convince a non-believer like yourself. Just sharing my experience. EDIT: Intel certainly had a lot of dumb projects over the years, from POTS videoconferencing boxes in the 90's to its attempt at an iMac-like modular cloud server box. But that was largely paranoia pushing them to explore every possible corner. But again, your experience is not my experience, and I'm not the one telling you that you are lying.
potatolicious 4y ago
Politics is in the eye of the beholder I think, and even though toxic politicking at work is definitely real, I suspect a lot of what is accused as "politicking" is just sour grapes for people with poor people skills, and people who refuse to consider soft skills to be a necessary core competency, especially at senior and staff levels. Take some of my practices for example: I lead and design many projects, and if I know a particular element of my proposal will be controversial for a particular stakeholder, I will schedule a review with them privately before to make sure the solution I'm proposing actually works for them, and also make any needed changes before getting in front of a larger audience. This ultimately just wastes less time for everyone and makes product better. But for someone cynically inclined I'd be easily accused of some kind of backdoor politicking. A lot of "politics" is just communication and soft skills.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
roflyear 4y ago
Most startups today I would imagine fit this bill.

by sbf501 4y ago

vsareto 4y ago

Just like there are loads of average developers, there are loads of average companies. You can get lucky and work at all great companies in your career. Most of us will not have enough jobs in our lives to get a representative sample. There is also a question of having different standards. Bad companies might just be bad for someone who has access to the top companies, but otherwise great for average workers.

sbf501 4y ago
Point taken. My comment is a good example of "tech privilege".

tayo42 4y ago

im actually amazed you never ran into politics at work. you never needed to navigate around egos to get what you want, you do every thing purely on merit, every decision is only technical? my whole career as been filled with stuff like people forcing their pet projects on the company, people hiring their friends and dealing with their in crowd

sbf501 4y ago
> you do every thing purely on merit, every decision is only technical? Yeah, honestly. The vast majority of my hard decisions I made were based on schedule and resources: having to kill things or move people around. The only "political" anomaly I witnessed was that it seemed the employees at the Israel Design Center at Intel were getting promoted to principal at a much faster rate, and with much less years and experience, for what didn't seem like actual merit. But that didn't impact me other than some jealousy, because the line for principal promotion in my division(s) were very long with really really smart people. And I've seen many principals get shown the door for poor performance. One possibility is that I never reached a level where politics mattered, or teams were small enough that it didn't have time to foment. And there certainly people who lived to become managers because they thought it was a status symbol, but I was happy for them to do the job. Another could be that I'm just... well, daft. Both are possible. :)
- tayo42 4y ago
  Is there somewhere I can send a resume? Hah
alexfromapex 4y ago
Politics I’ve seen almost everywhere but nepotism and cronyism are horrible. I’ve experienced that firsthand at a startup, when a new CIO hired his unqualified buddies into leadership roles. One was a young female and he was a much older divorcee and it made my skin crawl.

Der_Einzige 4y ago

Intel was overran by MBA types until they got their most recent CEO, and it'll take years for them to undue that rot. If you worked in a software group at Intel after 2015 and didn't play politics, I straight up don't believe you.

sbf501 4y ago
I never worked for a software group at Intel. And I started there in 1989. I'm not out to convince a non-believer like yourself. Just sharing my experience. EDIT: Intel certainly had a lot of dumb projects over the years, from POTS videoconferencing boxes in the 90's to its attempt at an iMac-like modular cloud server box. But that was largely paranoia pushing them to explore every possible corner. But again, your experience is not my experience, and I'm not the one telling you that you are lying.

potatolicious 4y ago

Politics is in the eye of the beholder I think, and even though toxic politicking at work is definitely real, I suspect a lot of what is accused as "politicking" is just sour grapes for people with poor people skills, and people who refuse to consider soft skills to be a necessary core competency, especially at senior and staff levels. Take some of my practices for example: I lead and design many projects, and if I know a particular element of my proposal will be controversial for a particular stakeholder, I will schedule a review with them privately before to make sure the solution I'm proposing actually works for them, and also make any needed changes before getting in front of a larger audience. This ultimately just wastes less time for everyone and makes product better. But for someone cynically inclined I'd be easily accused of some kind of backdoor politicking. A lot of "politics" is just communication and soft skills.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

roflyear 4y ago

Most startups today I would imagine fit this bill.