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It cascades all the way down to the lowest income brackets, unfortunately, with each group displacing the next group down. It's a systemic issue and can't be f

It cascades all the way down to the lowest income brackets, unfortunately, with each group displacing the next group down. It's a systemic issue and can't be fixed by focusing on any particular set of earners. The entire system is broken and needs to be replaced.

lotsofpulp 4y ago
What is the systemic issue? Some people are too poor compared to others? Insufficient supply of housing in desirable metros? Insufficient supply of desirable metros? Technology and automation allowing for economies of scale that allow fewer people to capture more and more of the gains?
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  The biggest one is likely housing as a store of value or investment. Countries which don't embrace that view of housing, like Japan, have significantly less problems with housing supply despite having fewer points of concentration to spread the population across. There, luxury housing (e.g. high rise condos in the heart of the city) are of course still expensive but more affordable housing is broadly available, mostly in residential districts. Houses are seen as a liability and as such property with housing on it deprecates much the way a car would in the US. As a result it's not too difficult to find housing for sale for prices below ~$200k USD in the Tokyo metro area with options opening up considerably if you bump the upper limit to $300k USD. Those prices are unheard of in most US metro areas, with even the most dumpy closet of an apartment you can find fetching prices higher than that. Also note that this is just what's visible to me as a foreigner — there's likely a large number of properties that I can't see. This is also partially enabled by their extensive public transportation. It's much less of a problem to not be in the heart of the city when getting there costs ¥500 or less and is a ~30 minute ride that you're free to read, catch up on email, etc during. So in short, 1) housing should be treated as homes, not investments 2) most US cities need more density 3) public transportation needs to be expanded and properly supported.
  - midoridensha 4y ago
    >This is also partially enabled by their extensive public transportation. It's much less of a problem to not be in the heart of the city when getting there costs ¥500 or less and is a ~30 minute ride that you're free to read, catch up on email, etc during. Don't forget, this commute is actually free for most commuters, because their companies pay for it. It only costs money to use the public transit if they stray from their normal commute route (and this is automatically calculated and handled by the system), or go somewhere on the weekend. So not only do Tokyoites not have to deal with car payments, insurance payments, maintenance costs, and fuel costs if they don't want to, just getting to work and back won't cost them anything but time. Plus they don't have to worry much about being killed or maimed on the way to work.
  - pandaman 4y ago
    You seem to be confusing a cause and an effect. Japan has been having slow population growth, which turned negative more than 10 years ago, and a stagnant economy in the past 30 years. In these conditions housing does not appreciate well and is not a good investment. When Japan had a growing economy and increasing population it had 100 year mortgages: https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990/05/21/73567/ https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990...

lotsofpulp 4y ago

What is the systemic issue? Some people are too poor compared to others? Insufficient supply of housing in desirable metros? Insufficient supply of desirable metros? Technology and automation allowing for economies of scale that allow fewer people to capture more and more of the gains?

kitsunesoba 4y ago
The biggest one is likely housing as a store of value or investment. Countries which don't embrace that view of housing, like Japan, have significantly less problems with housing supply despite having fewer points of concentration to spread the population across. There, luxury housing (e.g. high rise condos in the heart of the city) are of course still expensive but more affordable housing is broadly available, mostly in residential districts. Houses are seen as a liability and as such property with housing on it deprecates much the way a car would in the US. As a result it's not too difficult to find housing for sale for prices below ~$200k USD in the Tokyo metro area with options opening up considerably if you bump the upper limit to $300k USD. Those prices are unheard of in most US metro areas, with even the most dumpy closet of an apartment you can find fetching prices higher than that. Also note that this is just what's visible to me as a foreigner — there's likely a large number of properties that I can't see. This is also partially enabled by their extensive public transportation. It's much less of a problem to not be in the heart of the city when getting there costs ¥500 or less and is a ~30 minute ride that you're free to read, catch up on email, etc during. So in short, 1) housing should be treated as homes, not investments 2) most US cities need more density 3) public transportation needs to be expanded and properly supported.
- midoridensha 4y ago
  >This is also partially enabled by their extensive public transportation. It's much less of a problem to not be in the heart of the city when getting there costs ¥500 or less and is a ~30 minute ride that you're free to read, catch up on email, etc during. Don't forget, this commute is actually free for most commuters, because their companies pay for it. It only costs money to use the public transit if they stray from their normal commute route (and this is automatically calculated and handled by the system), or go somewhere on the weekend. So not only do Tokyoites not have to deal with car payments, insurance payments, maintenance costs, and fuel costs if they don't want to, just getting to work and back won't cost them anything but time. Plus they don't have to worry much about being killed or maimed on the way to work.
- pandaman 4y ago
  You seem to be confusing a cause and an effect. Japan has been having slow population growth, which turned negative more than 10 years ago, and a stagnant economy in the past 30 years. In these conditions housing does not appreciate well and is not a good investment. When Japan had a growing economy and increasing population it had 100 year mortgages: https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990/05/21/73567/ https://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/1990...