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> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges duri

by itake 4y ago

> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges during crashes, preventing liquidation, because exchanges stopped or delayed deposits during high volume trading. Its super cool that you can keep your own crypto, but if you can't trade that crypto, whats the point?

tazard 4y ago
I think you missed the whole point. Celsius, centralized exchanges, etc, you don't actually own the crypto. You have an account on a site. If you want to own your crypto and also trade between currencies, your better off using something like Uniswap
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. You don't even get to know what wallet it's in, and if Coinbase decides to go sideways, they can snatch up your money with no legal consequence. You're right that part of the problem is the US failing to regulate them, but there's nothing to regulate. A public ledger does not a currency make. Your parents will never have a custodial wallet. The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    >I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. No, it is you who missed the point yet again. If you give your crypto to Coinbase it isn't your crypto anymore. You are entrusting Coinbase with your crypto. FDIC insurance may be helpful if your bank has financial difficulties, but any money you entrust to the bank can be seized just as easily as Coinbase can seize your money. Ask a truck driver who participated in the lockdown protests in Ottowa how secure their fiat money was in the bank after it was unilaterally seized by the government. > The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need. Does anyone go into crypto because it is "easier" than traditional banking?
    - itake 4y ago
      I think you're missing the point. Even if you have a private wallet, you don't 'own' your own crypto. When the Solana network was down [0], could the people that 'own' their own wallets trade their crypto? What about the people with their coins on an exchange? [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase Don't do that if you want to actually own your coins.
  - tornato7 4y ago
    By the way, these days there are wallets insured by Lloyd's which is a good of a guarantee as FDIC
- itake 4y ago
  I think you missed my point. A recent example is Solana. Their network keeps crashing [0]. Everyone keeping their own keys are completely locked away from trading their coin. Everyone with their coin owned in a centralized exchange can trade freely. If you hold your own coins, you're vulnerable to network attacks and AMM instability/hacks. If you put the coins on an exchange, you're vulnerable to the exchange's liquidity issues. [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
  - tornato7 4y ago
    Yes, if you use Solana you should be aware that the chain very regularly has serious downtime. Ethereum gas fees can spike but generally there has never been downtime.
    - itake 4y ago
      All chains have problems. Ethereum hard forked and high gas fees. Just to spend your money costs $20 USD :|. How much downtime did Terra have before it crashed?
__s 4y ago
You can trade crypto in person without an exchange
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  Finding liquidity might be a problem though. At least, I don’t have any local market makers quoting a bid/ask for BTC or ETH.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    I don't know where you are, but it's very likely that you do.
- rodgerd 4y ago
  Yep. Then you can enjoy all the risks of cash, with the additional benefits that you have to manage digital security as well. Nothing like losing all your money because you can't unlock your wallet any more. Or sent it to the tip.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Can you, with no services at all? You can share your keys... but you can still double spend, etc.
- strangattractor 4y ago
  We have a solution for that - it is called money and it is anonymous. I can also use it to buy things like Halloween candy at the store even when the power is out. Truly amazing invention.
  - saurik 4y ago
    But it isn't programmable, and I can't easily carry large quantities of it. Is it really so crazy that some people want to use crypto? The person wasn't saying "crypto uniquely solved this problem" they were defending against someone who said "crypto is useless if you can't do this".
redox99 4y ago
That's why I think Bitcoin is outdated (yes, get your pitchforks), and you really need something that can do smart contracts. Bitcoin you can hold it, transfer it, and not much more. Having smart contracts (like Ethereum) allows you to have something like Uniswap, which is decentralized and allows you to trade your coins. Yes, it's not a fiat on/offramp, but if stablecoins are actually good and backed, in the scenarios you describe you would just buy/sell stablecoins and at a later point exchange those stables for cash.
- gobip 4y ago
  Layer two on Bitcoin. Lightning network. Stablecoins coming soon.
- cdiddy2 4y ago
  With tBTC (v2 coming very soon), you can move you bitcoin to the ethereum chain and trade it/use all defi there and then move it back all trustlessly. So in a way it makes ethereum a layer2 for bitcoin to work off of without having to change the bitcoin base chain
Jommi 4y ago
you can trade crypto you own, all the while keeping ownership of that crypto look into decentralized finance and you will be amazed

by itake 4y ago

tazard 4y ago

I think you missed the whole point. Celsius, centralized exchanges, etc, you don't actually own the crypto. You have an account on a site. If you want to own your crypto and also trade between currencies, your better off using something like Uniswap

smoldesu 4y ago
I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. You don't even get to know what wallet it's in, and if Coinbase decides to go sideways, they can snatch up your money with no legal consequence. You're right that part of the problem is the US failing to regulate them, but there's nothing to regulate. A public ledger does not a currency make. Your parents will never have a custodial wallet. The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need.
- StanislavPetrov 4y ago
  >I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. No, it is you who missed the point yet again. If you give your crypto to Coinbase it isn't your crypto anymore. You are entrusting Coinbase with your crypto. FDIC insurance may be helpful if your bank has financial difficulties, but any money you entrust to the bank can be seized just as easily as Coinbase can seize your money. Ask a truck driver who participated in the lockdown protests in Ottowa how secure their fiat money was in the bank after it was unilaterally seized by the government. > The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need. Does anyone go into crypto because it is "easier" than traditional banking?
  - itake 4y ago
    I think you're missing the point. Even if you have a private wallet, you don't 'own' your own crypto. When the Solana network was down [0], could the people that 'own' their own wallets trade their crypto? What about the people with their coins on an exchange? [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase Don't do that if you want to actually own your coins.
- tornato7 4y ago
  By the way, these days there are wallets insured by Lloyd's which is a good of a guarantee as FDIC
itake 4y ago
I think you missed my point. A recent example is Solana. Their network keeps crashing [0]. Everyone keeping their own keys are completely locked away from trading their coin. Everyone with their coin owned in a centralized exchange can trade freely. If you hold your own coins, you're vulnerable to network attacks and AMM instability/hacks. If you put the coins on an exchange, you're vulnerable to the exchange's liquidity issues. [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
- tornato7 4y ago
  Yes, if you use Solana you should be aware that the chain very regularly has serious downtime. Ethereum gas fees can spike but generally there has never been downtime.
  - itake 4y ago
    All chains have problems. Ethereum hard forked and high gas fees. Just to spend your money costs $20 USD :|. How much downtime did Terra have before it crashed?

__s 4y ago

You can trade crypto in person without an exchange

quickthrowman 4y ago
Finding liquidity might be a problem though. At least, I don’t have any local market makers quoting a bid/ask for BTC or ETH.
- jhugo 4y ago
  I don't know where you are, but it's very likely that you do.
rodgerd 4y ago
Yep. Then you can enjoy all the risks of cash, with the additional benefits that you have to manage digital security as well. Nothing like losing all your money because you can't unlock your wallet any more. Or sent it to the tip.
vorpalhex 4y ago
Can you, with no services at all? You can share your keys... but you can still double spend, etc.
strangattractor 4y ago
We have a solution for that - it is called money and it is anonymous. I can also use it to buy things like Halloween candy at the store even when the power is out. Truly amazing invention.
- saurik 4y ago
  But it isn't programmable, and I can't easily carry large quantities of it. Is it really so crazy that some people want to use crypto? The person wasn't saying "crypto uniquely solved this problem" they were defending against someone who said "crypto is useless if you can't do this".

redox99 4y ago

That's why I think Bitcoin is outdated (yes, get your pitchforks), and you really need something that can do smart contracts. Bitcoin you can hold it, transfer it, and not much more. Having smart contracts (like Ethereum) allows you to have something like Uniswap, which is decentralized and allows you to trade your coins. Yes, it's not a fiat on/offramp, but if stablecoins are actually good and backed, in the scenarios you describe you would just buy/sell stablecoins and at a later point exchange those stables for cash.

gobip 4y ago
Layer two on Bitcoin. Lightning network. Stablecoins coming soon.
cdiddy2 4y ago
With tBTC (v2 coming very soon), you can move you bitcoin to the ethereum chain and trade it/use all defi there and then move it back all trustlessly. So in a way it makes ethereum a layer2 for bitcoin to work off of without having to change the bitcoin base chain

Jommi 4y ago

you can trade crypto you own, all the while keeping ownership of that crypto look into decentralized finance and you will be amazed