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This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your ke

This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. If you give away your crypto to some centralized entity and "trust them" that they'll keep your stuff and not steal it, then you don't get the point of crypto and you're using it wrong. Yes, I know holding your own keys is hard. There are a lot of things that can be done to improve the UX. And even then, I don't think crypto needs to be easy enough for your grandma to use it, because I don't think crypto needs to replace TradFi for every transaction.

itake 4y ago
> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges during crashes, preventing liquidation, because exchanges stopped or delayed deposits during high volume trading. Its super cool that you can keep your own crypto, but if you can't trade that crypto, whats the point?
- tazard 4y ago
  I think you missed the whole point. Celsius, centralized exchanges, etc, you don't actually own the crypto. You have an account on a site. If you want to own your crypto and also trade between currencies, your better off using something like Uniswap
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. You don't even get to know what wallet it's in, and if Coinbase decides to go sideways, they can snatch up your money with no legal consequence. You're right that part of the problem is the US failing to regulate them, but there's nothing to regulate. A public ledger does not a currency make. Your parents will never have a custodial wallet. The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need.
    - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
      >I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. No, it is you who missed the point yet again. If you give your crypto to Coinbase it isn't your crypto anymore. You are entrusting Coinbase with your crypto. FDIC insurance may be helpful if your bank has financial difficulties, but any money you entrust to the bank can be seized just as easily as Coinbase can seize your money. Ask a truck driver who participated in the lockdown protests in Ottowa how secure their fiat money was in the bank after it was unilaterally seized by the government. > The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need. Does anyone go into crypto because it is "easier" than traditional banking?
      - itake 4y ago
        I think you're missing the point. Even if you have a private wallet, you don't 'own' your own crypto. When the Solana network was down [0], could the people that 'own' their own wallets trade their crypto? What about the people with their coins on an exchange? [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      > Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase Don't do that if you want to actually own your coins.
    - tornato7 4y ago
      By the way, these days there are wallets insured by Lloyd's which is a good of a guarantee as FDIC
  - itake 4y ago
    I think you missed my point. A recent example is Solana. Their network keeps crashing [0]. Everyone keeping their own keys are completely locked away from trading their coin. Everyone with their coin owned in a centralized exchange can trade freely. If you hold your own coins, you're vulnerable to network attacks and AMM instability/hacks. If you put the coins on an exchange, you're vulnerable to the exchange's liquidity issues. [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
    - tornato7 4y ago
      Yes, if you use Solana you should be aware that the chain very regularly has serious downtime. Ethereum gas fees can spike but generally there has never been downtime.
      - itake 4y ago
        All chains have problems. Ethereum hard forked and high gas fees. Just to spend your money costs $20 USD :|. How much downtime did Terra have before it crashed?
- __s 4y ago
  You can trade crypto in person without an exchange
  - quickthrowman 4y ago
    Finding liquidity might be a problem though. At least, I don’t have any local market makers quoting a bid/ask for BTC or ETH.
    - jhugo 4y ago
      I don't know where you are, but it's very likely that you do.
  - rodgerd 4y ago
    Yep. Then you can enjoy all the risks of cash, with the additional benefits that you have to manage digital security as well. Nothing like losing all your money because you can't unlock your wallet any more. Or sent it to the tip.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    Can you, with no services at all? You can share your keys... but you can still double spend, etc.
  - strangattractor 4y ago
    We have a solution for that - it is called money and it is anonymous. I can also use it to buy things like Halloween candy at the store even when the power is out. Truly amazing invention.
    - saurik 4y ago
      But it isn't programmable, and I can't easily carry large quantities of it. Is it really so crazy that some people want to use crypto? The person wasn't saying "crypto uniquely solved this problem" they were defending against someone who said "crypto is useless if you can't do this".
- redox99 4y ago
  That's why I think Bitcoin is outdated (yes, get your pitchforks), and you really need something that can do smart contracts. Bitcoin you can hold it, transfer it, and not much more. Having smart contracts (like Ethereum) allows you to have something like Uniswap, which is decentralized and allows you to trade your coins. Yes, it's not a fiat on/offramp, but if stablecoins are actually good and backed, in the scenarios you describe you would just buy/sell stablecoins and at a later point exchange those stables for cash.
  - gobip 4y ago
    Layer two on Bitcoin. Lightning network. Stablecoins coming soon.
  - cdiddy2 4y ago
    With tBTC (v2 coming very soon), you can move you bitcoin to the ethereum chain and trade it/use all defi there and then move it back all trustlessly. So in a way it makes ethereum a layer2 for bitcoin to work off of without having to change the bitcoin base chain
- Jommi 4y ago
  you can trade crypto you own, all the while keeping ownership of that crypto look into decentralized finance and you will be amazed
Bloedcoin 4y ago
Funny how other crypto bros would say the opposite. But hey now you got my interest: if it's not for normal people for whom is crypto then in your opinion?
- redox99 4y ago
  I'm not sure, it depends on how good the UX and trustless/low trust custodial services get[1]. I don't think crypto will ever be for "my grandma" for example. But I could see it being easy and safe enough for my dad, who knows what phishing is, would understand what private keys are, etc. [1] This is too long to explain but basically something similar to multisig and time locks to add extra security. Nothing like this exists at least easy to use right now.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    You said it though, it’s all about the UX. It’s much easier when you have something physical like a card or cash.
cwkoss 4y ago
This is a no true scotsman fallacy. It is crypto. It is the shallow, lazy, dangerous way of using it it, but it is still cryptocurrency.
- redox99 4y ago
  People have been saying "not your keys, not your coins" for over a decade. This isn't anything new.
  - andrewprock 4y ago
    And this aphorism conflates ownership with possession. Crypto is a bad actors fantasy turned reality.
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    Non custodial ownership is still an option, even if not advisable. If my non-tech savvy grandma wanted to own some bitcoin, I'd probably suggest she just keeps it on the exchange. Counterparty risk is probably less than risk of user error.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    It's funny you can say that about pretty much anything. If it's not cash on yourself it's not your money, or all sort of other assets where ownership is essentially backed by the government. The issue with all these crypto schemes is, people want to get rid of government oversight when it's inconvenient for them (e.g. have to pay taxes) but otherwise still want the government to guarantee ownership of actual physical assets, because it would be pretty inconvenient to loose the mansion you bought with all the crypto gains.
browningstreet 4y ago
How do you safely use crypto?
- ethanbond 4y ago
  It's quite easy: you download this Zero Knowledge Confabulator utility from github and load it up into your TAILS instance. Make sure you pull all this over Tor and use a North Korean VPN and please for the love of god verify the MD5 hashes. Once you've done this, you put your wallet key into the ConfabUtil which will produce a zk-snark. Memorize this because you will next need to go into an airgapped, seismically isolated room and write it down onto a one time pad. Now you start digging, and once you cannot dig any longer you can safely place this one time pad into the bottom of the hole, climb back out, and rest easy knowing Your Crypto Is Safe. I sure am glad that I can be my own bank!
  - deebosong 4y ago
    This is pretty much what it sounds like to a laymen like me. It's aggravatingly complex, with like, 18 points of user error failure points. And even if I quadruple checked, I'd wanna check 17 more times after that, and I'd still feel I messed up some crucial step at some point.
  - nawgz 4y ago
    I love the juxtaposition of this comment with its sibling. Comedy gold.
- redox99 4y ago
  With a hardware wallet where you store your seed phrase. You would never type this seed anywhere. You would store backups of this seed in something like a metal sheet that you can buy. You would be extremely careful of the numerous phishing attempts that you will encounter. Also with malicious smart contracts. And you would have a hot and cold wallet, to minimize risk.
  - maccard 4y ago
    Remember that this is an alternative to a small card that is widely accepted internationally that I can reclaim a transaction with a quick phone call.
optimalsolver 4y ago
No True ScotsCoin.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
RC_ITR 4y ago
>Crypto is about being trustless. People always say this, but you definitely have to trust that a group of unknown validators/miners/stakers will choose to keep working on your chosen chain, just as much as you have to trust that the bank will keep doing it's job as they promised you they would. And before you say "I don't need trust, validators have economic incentive to keep doing it, and if they don't someone else will", I have something to tell you about why people choose to work at banks (it's the salary).
- aydyn 4y ago
  > And before you say "I don't need trust, validators have economic incentive to keep doing it, and if they don't someone else will", I have something to tell you about why people choose to work at banks (it's the salary). This statement supports exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make. Think about it: * Bankers have economic incentive to work at a bank (the salary) * Validators have economic incentive to work on your chain (the block rewards) That's literally the entire point. You don't need to trust any validator, only that the majority are self-interested, rational actors.
  - RC_ITR 4y ago
    Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.
    - varajelle 4y ago
      You don't need to trust the validator because the protocol and cryptography makes sure they can't do anything against you. And the incentive they have to mine aligns with what you want (having the chain validated) You need to trust bankers because nothing prevent them to just take your money. They're not working for you, they are working for the bank.
      - adrianN 4y ago
        Nothing prevents them from taking your money, except the legal system of the country the bank resides in.
UncleMeat 4y ago
There are a large number of different "whole points." One of them, supported by a lot of people, is "programmable money unencumbered by banking institutions." To a lot of people, organizations like Celsius is the point of crypto. And we keep seeing this kind of garbage happen.
- gitfan86 4y ago
  I hate to be a "told you so" person, but since 2010 I've been saying bitcoin is just a typical libertarian pipe dream. Yes I missed out on a large financial bubble, but I also made $0 on beanie babies, and that is fine. But my main point is that people see a problem with the government and jump to the conclusion that we should just get rid of the whole institution without understanding the history of that institution. So bitcoin decided to get rid of govt control of money, which is just like a small town getting rid of their property taxes. It sounds great and works great until a bridge unexpectedly collapses and you have no way to pay for a new one, or until someone finds a bug in your defi code and borrows all your crypto for 1000 years at a zero interest rate.
  - netheril96 4y ago
    None of the things you mention are directly related to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has no bridges or DeFi. Only the blockchains with smart contracts (e.g. Ethereum) can have those.
    - tekknik 4y ago
      But it will need all of those things to be more useful than the current system. People don’t mail cash to buy products anymore. People transfer cash to exchanges and are safe from attacks like this. Bitcoin and other crypto must provide the same functionality or it will not gain traction.
Salgat 4y ago
This is absolutely an aspect of crypto, and it exists because of shortcomings in the ease of use of crypto.
Bud 4y ago
Sounds like a classic No True Scotsman fallacy to me. "Any crypto that is actually usable by normal people isn't real crypto and any problems with that stuff doesn't count!"
unboxingelf 4y ago
What is “crypto”? If you hold the keys to some PoS token it’s effectively the same as holding physical fiat dollars. There is crypto and there is Bitcoin, and they are not the same thing.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. It was the first one and it spawned many offspring. Some are identical, some are chain forks, some code forks. Some change, add or remove features. It created the category “cryptocurrency” and shares all of its features with other cryptocurrencies. This “buh buh buh Bitcoin isn’t a crypto!” meme that’s popped up since the last major crash is childish.
cycomanic 4y ago
> This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). > We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. It's funny how you write "with fiat it unless you hold cash, you can't do that". So what you mean is really with fiat you can do it just as well? The reason why people don't want to hold large amount of cash is convenience, the possibility of it getting stolen, lost... Interestingly many of the same reasons why people don't want to hold crypto themselves either.
- Out_of_Characte 4y ago
  You can't sell things on a website if paypal blocks you. Money does not work here, crypto does. also, how do you convert your blocked paypal account into cash? cash and online banking are two different things.
  - cycomanic 4y ago
    Where did we talk about selling online? Also you can sell online using cash, i.e. one person sends cash the other sends the goods (Mullvad for example sells the VPN services with cash). True most online places don't accept cash, but most also don't accept crypto either, and lets not even talk about physical places.
    - Out_of_Characte 4y ago
      The Irony is that the owners of celsius were holding crypto's they controlled, They sold the crypto and the fiat currency their users held are now unable to be returned to them. This is why the ability to exchange any given asset(selling) is far more important. Yes, they could have held fiat currency in cash in their couch but buying crypto is far better than that because you own the asset, you dont have to mail anyone money and fear law enforcement from asking questions (very possible if you attempt to buy anything expensive in cash, especially by mail) and crypto is safe even if your house burns down and your deposit box gets stolen. But people buying into celsius decided to give them all the advantage of the cryptocurrency protocol and all the risks with lending someone else money. I'm not even endorsing crypto, Just pointing out how much people misunderstood what the point of crypto even is. No company should receive money for holding your keys unless its dropbox
laurentsigal 4y ago
How do you buy a crypto without the trust? I understand that once you "have" it no-one can claim it's not yours, but is there any secure system about buying?

itake 4y ago

> The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). I've also heard stories where people were locked out of exchanges during crashes, preventing liquidation, because exchanges stopped or delayed deposits during high volume trading. Its super cool that you can keep your own crypto, but if you can't trade that crypto, whats the point?

tazard 4y ago
I think you missed the whole point. Celsius, centralized exchanges, etc, you don't actually own the crypto. You have an account on a site. If you want to own your crypto and also trade between currencies, your better off using something like Uniswap
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. You don't even get to know what wallet it's in, and if Coinbase decides to go sideways, they can snatch up your money with no legal consequence. You're right that part of the problem is the US failing to regulate them, but there's nothing to regulate. A public ledger does not a currency make. Your parents will never have a custodial wallet. The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need.
  - StanislavPetrov 4y ago
    >I think you've missed the point as well. Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase, there is no $250,000 FDIC insurance that comes along with it. No, it is you who missed the point yet again. If you give your crypto to Coinbase it isn't your crypto anymore. You are entrusting Coinbase with your crypto. FDIC insurance may be helpful if your bank has financial difficulties, but any money you entrust to the bank can be seized just as easily as Coinbase can seize your money. Ask a truck driver who participated in the lockdown protests in Ottowa how secure their fiat money was in the bank after it was unilaterally seized by the government. > The fact that traditional banking is easier than 'doing crypto right' should give you all the adoption metrics you need. Does anyone go into crypto because it is "easier" than traditional banking?
    - itake 4y ago
      I think you're missing the point. Even if you have a private wallet, you don't 'own' your own crypto. When the Solana network was down [0], could the people that 'own' their own wallets trade their crypto? What about the people with their coins on an exchange? [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > Nobody owns anything with crypto. When you give your crypto to Coinbase Don't do that if you want to actually own your coins.
  - tornato7 4y ago
    By the way, these days there are wallets insured by Lloyd's which is a good of a guarantee as FDIC
- itake 4y ago
  I think you missed my point. A recent example is Solana. Their network keeps crashing [0]. Everyone keeping their own keys are completely locked away from trading their coin. Everyone with their coin owned in a centralized exchange can trade freely. If you hold your own coins, you're vulnerable to network attacks and AMM instability/hacks. If you put the coins on an exchange, you're vulnerable to the exchange's liquidity issues. [0] - https://status.solana.com/uptime https://status.solana.com/uptime
  - tornato7 4y ago
    Yes, if you use Solana you should be aware that the chain very regularly has serious downtime. Ethereum gas fees can spike but generally there has never been downtime.
    - itake 4y ago
      All chains have problems. Ethereum hard forked and high gas fees. Just to spend your money costs $20 USD :|. How much downtime did Terra have before it crashed?
__s 4y ago
You can trade crypto in person without an exchange
- quickthrowman 4y ago
  Finding liquidity might be a problem though. At least, I don’t have any local market makers quoting a bid/ask for BTC or ETH.
  - jhugo 4y ago
    I don't know where you are, but it's very likely that you do.
- rodgerd 4y ago
  Yep. Then you can enjoy all the risks of cash, with the additional benefits that you have to manage digital security as well. Nothing like losing all your money because you can't unlock your wallet any more. Or sent it to the tip.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  Can you, with no services at all? You can share your keys... but you can still double spend, etc.
- strangattractor 4y ago
  We have a solution for that - it is called money and it is anonymous. I can also use it to buy things like Halloween candy at the store even when the power is out. Truly amazing invention.
  - saurik 4y ago
    But it isn't programmable, and I can't easily carry large quantities of it. Is it really so crazy that some people want to use crypto? The person wasn't saying "crypto uniquely solved this problem" they were defending against someone who said "crypto is useless if you can't do this".
redox99 4y ago
That's why I think Bitcoin is outdated (yes, get your pitchforks), and you really need something that can do smart contracts. Bitcoin you can hold it, transfer it, and not much more. Having smart contracts (like Ethereum) allows you to have something like Uniswap, which is decentralized and allows you to trade your coins. Yes, it's not a fiat on/offramp, but if stablecoins are actually good and backed, in the scenarios you describe you would just buy/sell stablecoins and at a later point exchange those stables for cash.
- gobip 4y ago
  Layer two on Bitcoin. Lightning network. Stablecoins coming soon.
- cdiddy2 4y ago
  With tBTC (v2 coming very soon), you can move you bitcoin to the ethereum chain and trade it/use all defi there and then move it back all trustlessly. So in a way it makes ethereum a layer2 for bitcoin to work off of without having to change the bitcoin base chain
Jommi 4y ago
you can trade crypto you own, all the while keeping ownership of that crypto look into decentralized finance and you will be amazed

Bloedcoin 4y ago

Funny how other crypto bros would say the opposite. But hey now you got my interest: if it's not for normal people for whom is crypto then in your opinion?

redox99 4y ago
I'm not sure, it depends on how good the UX and trustless/low trust custodial services get[1]. I don't think crypto will ever be for "my grandma" for example. But I could see it being easy and safe enough for my dad, who knows what phishing is, would understand what private keys are, etc. [1] This is too long to explain but basically something similar to multisig and time locks to add extra security. Nothing like this exists at least easy to use right now.
- tekknik 4y ago
  You said it though, it’s all about the UX. It’s much easier when you have something physical like a card or cash.

cwkoss 4y ago

This is a no true scotsman fallacy. It is crypto. It is the shallow, lazy, dangerous way of using it it, but it is still cryptocurrency.

redox99 4y ago
People have been saying "not your keys, not your coins" for over a decade. This isn't anything new.
- andrewprock 4y ago
  And this aphorism conflates ownership with possession. Crypto is a bad actors fantasy turned reality.
- cwkoss 4y ago
  Non custodial ownership is still an option, even if not advisable. If my non-tech savvy grandma wanted to own some bitcoin, I'd probably suggest she just keeps it on the exchange. Counterparty risk is probably less than risk of user error.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  It's funny you can say that about pretty much anything. If it's not cash on yourself it's not your money, or all sort of other assets where ownership is essentially backed by the government. The issue with all these crypto schemes is, people want to get rid of government oversight when it's inconvenient for them (e.g. have to pay taxes) but otherwise still want the government to guarantee ownership of actual physical assets, because it would be pretty inconvenient to loose the mansion you bought with all the crypto gains.

browningstreet 4y ago

How do you safely use crypto?

ethanbond 4y ago
It's quite easy: you download this Zero Knowledge Confabulator utility from github and load it up into your TAILS instance. Make sure you pull all this over Tor and use a North Korean VPN and please for the love of god verify the MD5 hashes. Once you've done this, you put your wallet key into the ConfabUtil which will produce a zk-snark. Memorize this because you will next need to go into an airgapped, seismically isolated room and write it down onto a one time pad. Now you start digging, and once you cannot dig any longer you can safely place this one time pad into the bottom of the hole, climb back out, and rest easy knowing Your Crypto Is Safe. I sure am glad that I can be my own bank!
- deebosong 4y ago
  This is pretty much what it sounds like to a laymen like me. It's aggravatingly complex, with like, 18 points of user error failure points. And even if I quadruple checked, I'd wanna check 17 more times after that, and I'd still feel I messed up some crucial step at some point.
- nawgz 4y ago
  I love the juxtaposition of this comment with its sibling. Comedy gold.
redox99 4y ago
With a hardware wallet where you store your seed phrase. You would never type this seed anywhere. You would store backups of this seed in something like a metal sheet that you can buy. You would be extremely careful of the numerous phishing attempts that you will encounter. Also with malicious smart contracts. And you would have a hot and cold wallet, to minimize risk.
- maccard 4y ago
  Remember that this is an alternative to a small card that is widely accepted internationally that I can reclaim a transaction with a quick phone call.

optimalsolver 4y ago

No True ScotsCoin.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

RC_ITR 4y ago

>Crypto is about being trustless. People always say this, but you definitely have to trust that a group of unknown validators/miners/stakers will choose to keep working on your chosen chain, just as much as you have to trust that the bank will keep doing it's job as they promised you they would. And before you say "I don't need trust, validators have economic incentive to keep doing it, and if they don't someone else will", I have something to tell you about why people choose to work at banks (it's the salary).

aydyn 4y ago
> And before you say "I don't need trust, validators have economic incentive to keep doing it, and if they don't someone else will", I have something to tell you about why people choose to work at banks (it's the salary). This statement supports exactly the opposite of the point you're trying to make. Think about it: * Bankers have economic incentive to work at a bank (the salary) * Validators have economic incentive to work on your chain (the block rewards) That's literally the entire point. You don't need to trust any validator, only that the majority are self-interested, rational actors.
- RC_ITR 4y ago
  Uhh, do bankers get paid for not doing their job? My point is that by the same logic then banks are also trustless.
  - varajelle 4y ago
    You don't need to trust the validator because the protocol and cryptography makes sure they can't do anything against you. And the incentive they have to mine aligns with what you want (having the chain validated) You need to trust bankers because nothing prevent them to just take your money. They're not working for you, they are working for the bank.
    - adrianN 4y ago
      Nothing prevents them from taking your money, except the legal system of the country the bank resides in.

UncleMeat 4y ago

There are a large number of different "whole points." One of them, supported by a lot of people, is "programmable money unencumbered by banking institutions." To a lot of people, organizations like Celsius is the point of crypto. And we keep seeing this kind of garbage happen.

gitfan86 4y ago
I hate to be a "told you so" person, but since 2010 I've been saying bitcoin is just a typical libertarian pipe dream. Yes I missed out on a large financial bubble, but I also made $0 on beanie babies, and that is fine. But my main point is that people see a problem with the government and jump to the conclusion that we should just get rid of the whole institution without understanding the history of that institution. So bitcoin decided to get rid of govt control of money, which is just like a small town getting rid of their property taxes. It sounds great and works great until a bridge unexpectedly collapses and you have no way to pay for a new one, or until someone finds a bug in your defi code and borrows all your crypto for 1000 years at a zero interest rate.
- netheril96 4y ago
  None of the things you mention are directly related to Bitcoin. Bitcoin has no bridges or DeFi. Only the blockchains with smart contracts (e.g. Ethereum) can have those.
  - tekknik 4y ago
    But it will need all of those things to be more useful than the current system. People don’t mail cash to buy products anymore. People transfer cash to exchanges and are safe from attacks like this. Bitcoin and other crypto must provide the same functionality or it will not gain traction.

Salgat 4y ago

This is absolutely an aspect of crypto, and it exists because of shortcomings in the ease of use of crypto.

Bud 4y ago

Sounds like a classic No True Scotsman fallacy to me. "Any crypto that is actually usable by normal people isn't real crypto and any problems with that stuff doesn't count!"

unboxingelf 4y ago

What is “crypto”? If you hold the keys to some PoS token it’s effectively the same as holding physical fiat dollars. There is crypto and there is Bitcoin, and they are not the same thing.

Nursie 4y ago
Bitcoin is a cryptocurrency. It was the first one and it spawned many offspring. Some are identical, some are chain forks, some code forks. Some change, add or remove features. It created the category “cryptocurrency” and shares all of its features with other cryptocurrencies. This “buh buh buh Bitcoin isn’t a crypto!” meme that’s popped up since the last major crash is childish.

cycomanic 4y ago

> This isn't crypto. You didn't own any crypto. Some company owned your crypto. The whole point of crypto is that you can own it (ie you and only you have your keys). > We hear stories here every now and then about how their bank/paypal/etc froze their money and they are fucked. Crypto allows you to actually own your stuff. With fiat unless you hold cash, you can't do that. Crypto is about being trustless. It's funny how you write "with fiat it unless you hold cash, you can't do that". So what you mean is really with fiat you can do it just as well? The reason why people don't want to hold large amount of cash is convenience, the possibility of it getting stolen, lost... Interestingly many of the same reasons why people don't want to hold crypto themselves either.

Out_of_Characte 4y ago
You can't sell things on a website if paypal blocks you. Money does not work here, crypto does. also, how do you convert your blocked paypal account into cash? cash and online banking are two different things.
- cycomanic 4y ago
  Where did we talk about selling online? Also you can sell online using cash, i.e. one person sends cash the other sends the goods (Mullvad for example sells the VPN services with cash). True most online places don't accept cash, but most also don't accept crypto either, and lets not even talk about physical places.
  - Out_of_Characte 4y ago
    The Irony is that the owners of celsius were holding crypto's they controlled, They sold the crypto and the fiat currency their users held are now unable to be returned to them. This is why the ability to exchange any given asset(selling) is far more important. Yes, they could have held fiat currency in cash in their couch but buying crypto is far better than that because you own the asset, you dont have to mail anyone money and fear law enforcement from asking questions (very possible if you attempt to buy anything expensive in cash, especially by mail) and crypto is safe even if your house burns down and your deposit box gets stolen. But people buying into celsius decided to give them all the advantage of the cryptocurrency protocol and all the risks with lending someone else money. I'm not even endorsing crypto, Just pointing out how much people misunderstood what the point of crypto even is. No company should receive money for holding your keys unless its dropbox

laurentsigal 4y ago

How do you buy a crypto without the trust? I understand that once you "have" it no-one can claim it's not yours, but is there any secure system about buying?