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> Dude's 84 years old. Far, far more likely he is (now) just a shitty teacher. Teaching is really hard and really demanding, and that's before you're a guy in

> Dude's 84 years old. Far, far more likely he is (now) just a shitty teacher. Teaching is really hard and really demanding, and that's before you're a guy in your 8th decade facing a 60-year culture gap with your students. Folks need to know when to retire, sounds like this guy missed the memo. He's old, therefore he must be doing a shitty job? Seriously? You're being ridiculously ageist.

coldpie 4y ago
Nah. He's 84 years old and got fired for being a shitty teacher. It's more likely that he's a shitty teacher than an entire generation of people are suddenly fundamentally different from all humans before them, as you claimed.
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > Nah. He's 84 years old and got fired for being a shitty teacher. It's more likely that he's a shitty teacher than an entire generation of people are suddenly fundamentally different from all humans before them, as you claimed. Come on. Having different expectations is not being "fundamentally different from all humans before them." It's actually pretty normal, as far as "generations" go. And if there's anything recent history should have taught you, is that "getting fired" for reason X, doesn't necessarily mean that reason X is actually true. It's not uncommon for a fired person to have been on the receiving end of unfair evaluation criteria, a bad manager, various kinds of prejudice, etc.
  - coldpie 4y ago
    Two things: 1) Humans decline mentally & physically as they age. Sucks, but it's true. This guy in his 30s was maybe a great teacher. That was in the 1970s. It's 2022. While I can't be certain, it's very likely he's not running on all cylinders. As mentioned, teaching is a really hard and demanding job. Statistically, it's very likely that he's just not up to the task anymore. People get old. Sorry. 2) Looking at it from a distance, if a group of students think your teaching style sucks so much that they put together a petition to get you to change it, that's just fundamentally a failure of your teaching style. He might want different students, but tough, these are the ones he's got. If he can't hack it with them then by definition he is a shitty teacher. Combine the two and you get a pretty clear picture. Guy's not up to the job and the school and students will be better without him.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > Humans decline mentally & physically as they age. Sucks, but it's true. This guy in his 30s was maybe a great teacher. That was in the 1970s. It's 2022. Sorry dude. In some ways that's true, in other ways that's not. IIRC, certain kinds of "mental agility" decrease as one ages, but that can be compensated for by increased experience and knowledge. Your comment also reads like classic techie ageism. How much has undergrad organic chemistry changed since the 70s? My guess: not much. If the guy still knows his stuff (and he almost certainly does, given he wrote a widely used textbook), and he could teach well in the past, he can almost certainly teach it effectively now. IMHO, that can be hard to grasp for tech people, because so much of our knowledge is obsoleted quickly by various kinds of churn. I'm getting zero indication that the issue was that he was befuddled or anything like that. > Looking at it from a distance, if a group of students think your teaching style sucks so much that they put together a petition to get you to change it, that's just fundamentally a failure of your teaching style. He might want different students, but tough, these are the ones he's got. If he can't hack it with them then by definition he is a shitty teacher. That's bad reasoning, on the order of "he must be guilty, otherwise they wouldn't have arrested him." By your logic, it would be his failure as a teacher if he failed to teach a class of literal illiterates Organic Chemistry.
phphphphp 4y ago
did you read the comment you wrote above? The one where you said that because they’re young they must be in the wrong? You’re the same tablespoon who wrote this comment, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > did you read the comment you wrote above? The one where you said that because they’re young they must be in the wrong? You’re the same tablespoon who wrote this comment, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said the students were wrong, I said we shouldn't presume they're correct and therefore take their opinion as the whole story.
wrp 4y ago
It would be ageist to say any old guy must be past it, but not ageist to say its a relevant consideration. I knew a few professors who were outstanding figures at their peak, but who continued teaching into their 80s. It was obvious to everyone around them that they needed to retire years before they actually did.

coldpie 4y ago

Nah. He's 84 years old and got fired for being a shitty teacher. It's more likely that he's a shitty teacher than an entire generation of people are suddenly fundamentally different from all humans before them, as you claimed.

tablespoon 4y ago
> Nah. He's 84 years old and got fired for being a shitty teacher. It's more likely that he's a shitty teacher than an entire generation of people are suddenly fundamentally different from all humans before them, as you claimed. Come on. Having different expectations is not being "fundamentally different from all humans before them." It's actually pretty normal, as far as "generations" go. And if there's anything recent history should have taught you, is that "getting fired" for reason X, doesn't necessarily mean that reason X is actually true. It's not uncommon for a fired person to have been on the receiving end of unfair evaluation criteria, a bad manager, various kinds of prejudice, etc.
- coldpie 4y ago
  Two things: 1) Humans decline mentally & physically as they age. Sucks, but it's true. This guy in his 30s was maybe a great teacher. That was in the 1970s. It's 2022. While I can't be certain, it's very likely he's not running on all cylinders. As mentioned, teaching is a really hard and demanding job. Statistically, it's very likely that he's just not up to the task anymore. People get old. Sorry. 2) Looking at it from a distance, if a group of students think your teaching style sucks so much that they put together a petition to get you to change it, that's just fundamentally a failure of your teaching style. He might want different students, but tough, these are the ones he's got. If he can't hack it with them then by definition he is a shitty teacher. Combine the two and you get a pretty clear picture. Guy's not up to the job and the school and students will be better without him.
  - tablespoon 4y ago
    > Humans decline mentally & physically as they age. Sucks, but it's true. This guy in his 30s was maybe a great teacher. That was in the 1970s. It's 2022. Sorry dude. In some ways that's true, in other ways that's not. IIRC, certain kinds of "mental agility" decrease as one ages, but that can be compensated for by increased experience and knowledge. Your comment also reads like classic techie ageism. How much has undergrad organic chemistry changed since the 70s? My guess: not much. If the guy still knows his stuff (and he almost certainly does, given he wrote a widely used textbook), and he could teach well in the past, he can almost certainly teach it effectively now. IMHO, that can be hard to grasp for tech people, because so much of our knowledge is obsoleted quickly by various kinds of churn. I'm getting zero indication that the issue was that he was befuddled or anything like that. > Looking at it from a distance, if a group of students think your teaching style sucks so much that they put together a petition to get you to change it, that's just fundamentally a failure of your teaching style. He might want different students, but tough, these are the ones he's got. If he can't hack it with them then by definition he is a shitty teacher. That's bad reasoning, on the order of "he must be guilty, otherwise they wouldn't have arrested him." By your logic, it would be his failure as a teacher if he failed to teach a class of literal illiterates Organic Chemistry.

phphphphp 4y ago

did you read the comment you wrote above? The one where you said that because they’re young they must be in the wrong? You’re the same tablespoon who wrote this comment, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591

tablespoon 4y ago
> did you read the comment you wrote above? The one where you said that because they’re young they must be in the wrong? You’re the same tablespoon who wrote this comment, right? https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33112591 You need to work on your reading comprehension. I never said the students were wrong, I said we shouldn't presume they're correct and therefore take their opinion as the whole story.

wrp 4y ago

It would be ageist to say any old guy must be past it, but not ageist to say its a relevant consideration. I knew a few professors who were outstanding figures at their peak, but who continued teaching into their 80s. It was obvious to everyone around them that they needed to retire years before they actually did.