4 ms·

Ummm, yeah sounds about right! Most of the time, systems fail, not people. People are extremely responsive and committed to their environments. Bad environment

Ummm, yeah sounds about right! Most of the time, systems fail, not people. People are extremely responsive and committed to their environments. Bad environments yield bad outcomes. If gen z has stopped blaming themselves for things outside their control, then they may be the wisest generation.

none_to_remain 4y ago
> systems fail, not people Perhaps the system failed this person by letting too many students attend his class who lacked the requisite intellectual ability or work ethic.
- dougmwne 4y ago
  Or the system failed by hiring him in the first place for a job he was unsuited for? Yes, I agree this was a systems issue that paired the wrong students with the wrong teacher. Maybe he should have been teaching an upper level course where the students could benefit from extra rigor or maybe he should have been release from teaching responsibility as a talented researcher.
autoexec 4y ago
> “They weren’t coming to class, that’s for sure, because I can count the house,” Dr. Jones said in an interview. “They weren’t watching the videos, and they weren’t able to answer the questions.” > “I think this petition was written more out of unhappiness with exam scores than an actual feeling of being treated unfairly,” wrote Mr. Benslimane, now a Ph.D. student at Harvard. “I have noticed that many of the students who consistently complained about the class did not use the resources we afforded to them.” sounds like the students had things within their control they could have done, like attend classes or watch lectures.
- trasz 4y ago
  You’re assuming those videos and classes were worth watching.
  - autoexec 4y ago
    Like the students, I haven't attended the classes or watched the videos so I would have no reason to think that they aren't worth watching. I'd guess it'd probably be worth a shot if you were struggling with the material and wanted a good grade though.
    - trasz 4y ago
      I believe every single shit teacher I’ve ever met used that excuse.
      - tablespoon 4y ago
        > I believe every single shit teacher I’ve ever met used that excuse. What does that add to the discussion? I had a shit teacher once, so every time a student accuses a teacher of being shit, they're correct? There also exist students who make up dishonest excuses for their poor performance, too. We're talking about a specific situation, not vague generalities. At best we can consider the questions raised, because we aren't going to be able to successfully litigate which side is right and which is wrong.
        trasz 4y ago
        It provides a counterpoint to the teacher's claims that you're repeated above. Think about it - why would this particular group of students, as opposed to other groups, with other teachers, decide not to learn? Also, it's not "once". One the best things I've learned early in school was learning to recognise bad teachers and how to deal with them. There are _plenty_ of them everywhere.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > Think about it - why would this particular group of students, as opposed to other groups, with other teachers, decide not to learn? That's where your logic breaks down. You're falling into the streetlight fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect). These people are in the news, but the news doesn't report everything. You can't infer this isn't happening elsewhere from this kind of media coverage.
WalterBright 4y ago
> If gen z has stopped blaming themselves for things outside their control The prevailing attitude I see in America these days is that people do not have agency. Their position in life is due to a combination of luck, privilege, oppression, somebody else, and government programs.

none_to_remain 4y ago

> systems fail, not people Perhaps the system failed this person by letting too many students attend his class who lacked the requisite intellectual ability or work ethic.

dougmwne 4y ago
Or the system failed by hiring him in the first place for a job he was unsuited for? Yes, I agree this was a systems issue that paired the wrong students with the wrong teacher. Maybe he should have been teaching an upper level course where the students could benefit from extra rigor or maybe he should have been release from teaching responsibility as a talented researcher.

autoexec 4y ago

> “They weren’t coming to class, that’s for sure, because I can count the house,” Dr. Jones said in an interview. “They weren’t watching the videos, and they weren’t able to answer the questions.” > “I think this petition was written more out of unhappiness with exam scores than an actual feeling of being treated unfairly,” wrote Mr. Benslimane, now a Ph.D. student at Harvard. “I have noticed that many of the students who consistently complained about the class did not use the resources we afforded to them.” sounds like the students had things within their control they could have done, like attend classes or watch lectures.

trasz 4y ago
You’re assuming those videos and classes were worth watching.
- autoexec 4y ago
  Like the students, I haven't attended the classes or watched the videos so I would have no reason to think that they aren't worth watching. I'd guess it'd probably be worth a shot if you were struggling with the material and wanted a good grade though.
  - trasz 4y ago
    I believe every single shit teacher I’ve ever met used that excuse.
    - tablespoon 4y ago
      > I believe every single shit teacher I’ve ever met used that excuse. What does that add to the discussion? I had a shit teacher once, so every time a student accuses a teacher of being shit, they're correct? There also exist students who make up dishonest excuses for their poor performance, too. We're talking about a specific situation, not vague generalities. At best we can consider the questions raised, because we aren't going to be able to successfully litigate which side is right and which is wrong.
      - trasz 4y ago
        It provides a counterpoint to the teacher's claims that you're repeated above. Think about it - why would this particular group of students, as opposed to other groups, with other teachers, decide not to learn? Also, it's not "once". One the best things I've learned early in school was learning to recognise bad teachers and how to deal with them. There are _plenty_ of them everywhere.
        tablespoon 4y ago
        > Think about it - why would this particular group of students, as opposed to other groups, with other teachers, decide not to learn? That's where your logic breaks down. You're falling into the streetlight fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetlight_effect). These people are in the news, but the news doesn't report everything. You can't infer this isn't happening elsewhere from this kind of media coverage.

WalterBright 4y ago

> If gen z has stopped blaming themselves for things outside their control The prevailing attitude I see in America these days is that people do not have agency. Their position in life is due to a combination of luck, privilege, oppression, somebody else, and government programs.