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I can see the argument for smoking... but why would anyone think someone is a bad parent for drinking a beer during the day? A lot of people in Europe drink a

by pier25 4y ago

I can see the argument for smoking... but why would anyone think someone is a bad parent for drinking a beer during the day? A lot of people in Europe drink a beer or glass of wine when having lunch. It's completely normal.

elzbardico 4y ago
Well, Americans are really puritanical, even in the left there's always some undercurrent of moral vigilance, only the taboos change.
samatman 4y ago
Different customs, different nuance. It's not unheard of to drink with lunch in the US, but it isn't common in most subcultures. The whole concept of "happy hour" involves immediately after work being the accepted time for daily drinkers to start. Americans on the whole drink rather less, and have more teetotalers. The easier thing to do is edit the beer out or replace it with coffee or soda, because the message the mid-day beer sends is in fact a parent who drinks too much in front of the kids. An American with no experience of European culture might be startled that everyone drinks at lunchtime, but wouldn't consider a European, or American, who has a beer with lunch, to be degenerate or alcoholic. A round of drinks during a business lunch is commonplace, some places it's a Friday thing. What it isn't is totally unremarkable. So as the exception rather than the norm, including this detail in a fictional context does send a different message. The editor is probably right to cut that line in translation.
- mola 4y ago
  Maybe if these things weren't edited Americans will learn to know other cultures and norms....
  - kevinventullo 4y ago
    Surprised I had to scroll this far to find this point. The ramifications of censorship stretch beyond interpretation of the book itself. Cultural norms are partially established by media, so by censoring this one is in fact reinforcing the puritanical norms.
- Archelaos 4y ago
  But is it not common knowledge for a target audience of Americans reading translations of Italian novels that Italians on average are far more relaxed in this matter? And if not, would it not be a good opportunity to teach them something here?
- ThrowawayR2 4y ago
  > "The editor is probably right to cut that line in translation." I can't agree with that. As a non-European, if I'm buying a translated work from a European author about a European character, I expect them to behave as ordinary Europeans would. I am paying for the authentic foreignness. If I wanted to see people behaving as they would in my own culture, I'd buy a work from a domestic author.
- fsckboy 4y ago
  >"happy hour" involves immediately after work being the accepted time for daily drinkers to start "happy hour" is the commercial offering of alcoholic drinks at a cheaper price to entice customers to come early. That will create a convivial atmosphere enticing more customers, and once there people will frequently have "just one more" a few times, extending their evening. Pretty sure it's about selling rather than social mores.
TillE 4y ago
When people say "don't drink and drive", they don't mean it's dangerous to have like one beer and then wait two hours. "Drinking" generally implies getting drunk, basically.
II2II 4y ago
> A lot of people in Europe drink a beer or glass of wine when having lunch. It's completely normal. When you live in a culture where a midday drink or drinking in front of children is associated with drinking problems, soon enough you will live in a culture where only people with drinking problems will be having a midday drink or drink in front of their children.
skrbjc 4y ago
Imagine if instead, a scene mentioned a child coming home and talking to his father who was in the middle of disassembling and cleaning his gun at the kitchen table. For many Americans this would be completely normal, but many Euros would think that was "bad parenting". As others have said, it seems like the editor was suggesting that Americans may view the scene differently than the writer may have intended, and was pointing out the fact to the author so they would be aware. Also it's hard to know without further context, but if the Euro was writing a story that would be set in America, that scene would seen somewhat odd to most Americans as mid-day drinking is not all that common, especially mid-week or without an explicit reason, like a birthday or some sort of celebration.
spookybones 4y ago
And what if it’s a midday cigarette? Both have moderation and addiction. Perhaps the image of a loving grandpa smoking a tobacco pipe would alleviate the stigma.

by pier25 4y ago

elzbardico 4y ago

Well, Americans are really puritanical, even in the left there's always some undercurrent of moral vigilance, only the taboos change.

samatman 4y ago

Different customs, different nuance. It's not unheard of to drink with lunch in the US, but it isn't common in most subcultures. The whole concept of "happy hour" involves immediately after work being the accepted time for daily drinkers to start. Americans on the whole drink rather less, and have more teetotalers. The easier thing to do is edit the beer out or replace it with coffee or soda, because the message the mid-day beer sends is in fact a parent who drinks too much in front of the kids. An American with no experience of European culture might be startled that everyone drinks at lunchtime, but wouldn't consider a European, or American, who has a beer with lunch, to be degenerate or alcoholic. A round of drinks during a business lunch is commonplace, some places it's a Friday thing. What it isn't is totally unremarkable. So as the exception rather than the norm, including this detail in a fictional context does send a different message. The editor is probably right to cut that line in translation.

mola 4y ago
Maybe if these things weren't edited Americans will learn to know other cultures and norms....
- kevinventullo 4y ago
  Surprised I had to scroll this far to find this point. The ramifications of censorship stretch beyond interpretation of the book itself. Cultural norms are partially established by media, so by censoring this one is in fact reinforcing the puritanical norms.
Archelaos 4y ago
But is it not common knowledge for a target audience of Americans reading translations of Italian novels that Italians on average are far more relaxed in this matter? And if not, would it not be a good opportunity to teach them something here?
ThrowawayR2 4y ago
> "The editor is probably right to cut that line in translation." I can't agree with that. As a non-European, if I'm buying a translated work from a European author about a European character, I expect them to behave as ordinary Europeans would. I am paying for the authentic foreignness. If I wanted to see people behaving as they would in my own culture, I'd buy a work from a domestic author.
fsckboy 4y ago
>"happy hour" involves immediately after work being the accepted time for daily drinkers to start "happy hour" is the commercial offering of alcoholic drinks at a cheaper price to entice customers to come early. That will create a convivial atmosphere enticing more customers, and once there people will frequently have "just one more" a few times, extending their evening. Pretty sure it's about selling rather than social mores.

TillE 4y ago

When people say "don't drink and drive", they don't mean it's dangerous to have like one beer and then wait two hours. "Drinking" generally implies getting drunk, basically.

II2II 4y ago

> A lot of people in Europe drink a beer or glass of wine when having lunch. It's completely normal. When you live in a culture where a midday drink or drinking in front of children is associated with drinking problems, soon enough you will live in a culture where only people with drinking problems will be having a midday drink or drink in front of their children.

skrbjc 4y ago

Imagine if instead, a scene mentioned a child coming home and talking to his father who was in the middle of disassembling and cleaning his gun at the kitchen table. For many Americans this would be completely normal, but many Euros would think that was "bad parenting". As others have said, it seems like the editor was suggesting that Americans may view the scene differently than the writer may have intended, and was pointing out the fact to the author so they would be aware. Also it's hard to know without further context, but if the Euro was writing a story that would be set in America, that scene would seen somewhat odd to most Americans as mid-day drinking is not all that common, especially mid-week or without an explicit reason, like a birthday or some sort of celebration.

spookybones 4y ago

And what if it’s a midday cigarette? Both have moderation and addiction. Perhaps the image of a loving grandpa smoking a tobacco pipe would alleviate the stigma.