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I think most people don't appreciate the extent to which extracurriculars, athletics and personal factors affect elite college admissions. Especially for things

by AlanYx 4y ago

I think most people don't appreciate the extent to which extracurriculars, athletics and personal factors affect elite college admissions. Especially for things like computer science programs. I was in that bucket too, believing that it was mostly SAT scores that mattered in making admissions decisions, and the other factors being largely supplemental. Reading the expert witness report in the Harvard case ( https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/diverse-education/files/legal_-_card_report_revised_filing.pdf https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/files/diverse-education/file... ) opened my eyes in that respect. Maybe it should be different--for example, I'm at a loss to understand how athletics might predict success in computer science programs (grit, maybe?)--and there's probably a reasonable argument that the four-factor (academic, extracurricular, athletic, personal) model creates more systematic biases than it avoids. But what you're saying is pretty accurate.

thwayunion 4y ago
> for example, I'm at a loss to understand how athletics might predict success in computer science programs (grit, maybe?) Grit, leadership, team work, the crucible of (a different type of) competition, tactics and strategy, etc. Again, not sports in general, but specifically being good enough at a sport to get a D1 or D2 scholarship, requires significant discipline and inter-personal skills. (I also think tech folks under-appreciate that physical movement is a type of intelligence that might just correlate well with certain types of high-stress/low-information decision making... at least as well as IQ correlates with similar types of things... but that's an evidence-free conjecture on my part.) > there's probably a reasonable argument that the four-factor (academic, extracurricular, athletic, personal) model creates more systematic biases than it avoids. But what you're saying is pretty accurate. That's definitely true -- eg a student from outside the college-going class or without enough economic capital wouldn't be able to participate in niche sports and become elite by virtue of big fish/small point dynamics. And their parent wouldn't have friends who could give advice or open doors. But, do note that the student in the referenced paragraph is not a victim of that type of systematic bias. His father, a partner at IBM, is exactly the type of person who is positioned to provide those unfair advantages. (edit: my posts above should be referring to TOC not NDT.)

by AlanYx 4y ago

thwayunion 4y ago

> for example, I'm at a loss to understand how athletics might predict success in computer science programs (grit, maybe?) Grit, leadership, team work, the crucible of (a different type of) competition, tactics and strategy, etc. Again, not sports in general, but specifically being good enough at a sport to get a D1 or D2 scholarship, requires significant discipline and inter-personal skills. (I also think tech folks under-appreciate that physical movement is a type of intelligence that might just correlate well with certain types of high-stress/low-information decision making... at least as well as IQ correlates with similar types of things... but that's an evidence-free conjecture on my part.) > there's probably a reasonable argument that the four-factor (academic, extracurricular, athletic, personal) model creates more systematic biases than it avoids. But what you're saying is pretty accurate. That's definitely true -- eg a student from outside the college-going class or without enough economic capital wouldn't be able to participate in niche sports and become elite by virtue of big fish/small point dynamics. And their parent wouldn't have friends who could give advice or open doors. But, do note that the student in the referenced paragraph is not a victim of that type of systematic bias. His father, a partner at IBM, is exactly the type of person who is positioned to provide those unfair advantages. (edit: my posts above should be referring to TOC not NDT.)