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If you have lived in a country with load-shedding and have experienced this before, as far as your average household goes, 3 hours without power is barely an in

If you have lived in a country with load-shedding and have experienced this before, as far as your average household goes, 3 hours without power is barely an inconvenience. If the winters are harsh though, probably not as easy.

RichardCNormos 4y ago
Or, if you live in California. 3 hours is nothing! A while ago, we went for a week without power in the northern part of the state.
- booboofixer 4y ago
  Why?
  - tb_technical 4y ago
    California's energy policy needs a little work. Their environmental laws made creating power plants impossible in their state, so they almost exclusively purchase power from other states at sub-optimal rates for any new power demand. Edit: phrasing and tone
    - gsbraitberg 4y ago
      In 2021, California produced about 200 TWh in-state and imported about 85 TWh, meaning they imported about 30% of total electricity. Not exactly "almost exclusively" imports. Also, California regulations certainly permit building new power plants (and many new plants have been built in the past decade), just not new coal fired plants. https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo...
      - Alupis 4y ago
        > just not new coal fired plants. Or hydro-electric, or nuclear, or anything that would have meaningful impact on the state's situation. More solar and wind are great, but they do not respond well to surges in demand, and there is no current way to store energy either. So some impressive total production number might sound great, but the reality does not follow unfortunately. For a non-trivial portion of the state, electricity isn't a guarantee throughout the year anymore.
        tb_technical 4y ago
        When I lived in LA it was frustrating explaining (to my out of state friends) how bad the power situation was. I cancelled many a DnD game because of it. I eventually got so sick of it , that I left the state for good. I've never been happier.
      - tb_technical 4y ago
        If you chew through the numbers you just posted, you will find that imports from out of state are increasing year over year. Hence, my statement "they almost exclusively purchase power from other states at sub-optimal rates for any new power demand"
  - RichardCNormos 4y ago
    PG&E, our regulated monopoly electrical utility, turns the power off during hot, windy days during the summer so that they can avoid liability for starting wildfires. They never maintained their equipment, so it fails and starts massive fires.
    - booboofixer 4y ago
      Fascinating
- bilbo0s 4y ago
  That's nothing. You want to learn what to do during winter power outages? Join us down in Houston! Or anywhere in Texas for that matter.
- standardUser 4y ago
  I lived in California for 30 years and the only time I remember any serious issues with power was back in 2000-2001 during the famous electricity crisis. But for some reason this idea endures that California has problems with their grid. Do they really? Because other than that one acute crisis I didn't have a problem with blackouts (that I can remember) for 20 freaking years. That's a pretty good record. It's a big state, so maybe the Bay Area has just fared better than other regions?
  - bumbledraven 4y ago
    It's been getting worse lately. The average amount of time each residential PG&E customer was without power due to a sustained outage has increased from 1.9 hours/year in 2016 to 3.6 hours/year in 2021. https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/outages/planning-and-preparedness/safety-and-preparedness/grid-reliability/electric-reliability-reports/electric-reliability-reports.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/outages/planning-and-p...
  - Alupis 4y ago
    PG&E started voluntarily turning off power to entire towns to avoid fire hazards... fire hazards that were self-made and exist only because of other failures that have piled up for the past few decades. So the current situation is something along the lines of when the wind blows too much, they shut off the grid. When it blows too little, they shut off the grid. When it gets too hot, they shut off the grid. It's crazy that this is happening in California of all places, but decades of poor policy decisions led to this and it'll take quite a bit of time to undo.
  - bonestamp2 4y ago
    I used to live half a mile from a power plant in another state and I had far more outages there than I've had in California. That said, there are constant incentives to reduce peak energy usage, and there were a couple weeks this year where they almost did rolling blackouts. So, they still struggle with meeting demand sometimes.
  - eddsh 4y ago
    Stanford had a big power outage recently (this summer) that took out student accommodation, server rooms, etc... due to wild fires.
lkbm 4y ago
> If you have lived in a country with load-shedding and have experienced this before, as far as your average household goes, 3 hours without power is barely an inconvenience. I live in the US (TX) where load shedding is rare, but I did lose power from roughly 11:30a yesterday until ~11:30 today due to a snafu with the power company. Discovered this just prior to my 12pm Zoom meeting. Three hours while I sleep matters not. Three hours when I need my wifi for work is quite annoying. A more robust energy supply should be the goal, but better failure modes would also be of value.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Texas is disconnected from the national power grid even though it would help. "According to an analysis by the American Council on Renewable Energy, each additional gigawatt of transmission capacity connecting the Texas power grid with neighboring states could have saved nearly $1 billion and prevented blackouts in around 200,000 Texas homes during Winter Storm Uri last year." "House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy that the state’s denizens would prefer a prolonged blackout over federal regulators requiring changes to the system. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/14/texas-national-power-grids/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/14/texas-national-power... It seems like Texas having a robust power supply is second to ideological virtue signaling by republicans
  - alexchamberlain 4y ago
    AFAIK there isn't a national power grid in America- there are at least 5 or so State+ size grids, with loads of smaller ones and a whole bunch of interconnects. I'm fairly sure Texas (ERCOT) has interconnects to other grids.
    - Izkata 4y ago
      5 grids (of which Texas is one), and they're not even just US ones - we share with Canada: https://i.cbc.ca/1.5921020.1613772812!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/how-power-is-shared-in-north-america.jpg https://i.cbc.ca/1.5921020.1613772812!/fileImage/httpImage/i... They're then further subdivided into operators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmission_grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmiss...
bombcar 4y ago
> A well-insulated wall, being necessary for the warmth of a free House, the right of the people to keep and bear R15, shall not be infringed. We lost our furnace during the winter and it took us about a week to realize it, because the house lost heat so slowly. 3 hours should be nothing unless you've no insulation at all, in which case you have other problems.
- jstanley 4y ago
  Sadly no amount of insulation can keep your internet working.
  - bombcar 4y ago
    I'm really disappointed we didn't go for telco-like quality for internet communications. It would be really nice if all the POPs and DSLAMS and stuff ran on -40v so all you had to do was put your modem and router on a UPS and keep your internet up when the power dropped.
  - klyrs 4y ago
    And yet, nobody makes bare-copper ethernet cables...
  - skybrian 4y ago
    Depending where you live, a cell phone might work as a reasonable backup, along with a USB battery.
- SilverBirch 4y ago
  Here’s a funny story: the Uk has the worst insulated homes in Europe and we stopped most of the incentives to improve them in 2010 because “we couldn’t afford it” and now we’re on the hook for billions.
  - yetanotherloser 4y ago
    It is basically never cold enough to die of cold in the UK. Winter death "surges" are just death by NHS. Anyway insulation is only worth bothering with if you give up on ventilation (excepting expensive heat-recovery mechanical ventilation very few people have in any country) which is far more important - being a bit chilly is easily fixed with tweed but lack of fresh air really fucks you up. Turn off the heat, open a bloody window and put a jacket on! I for one am grateful the UK managed to keep loads of nice Victorian townhouses because the Luftwaffe weren't that great at their jobs. They're nice, proper high ceilings and woodwork. I agree with you that the government energy subsidy we have now is appalling. Should be dumped immediately. I'm paying £15/mo less than I did before - this is the most stupid use of national debt ever devised, I would rather pay what energy actually costs than be forced to be complicit in this.
_morgs_ 4y ago
In South Africa we've been having load shedding for a record amount of time this year. Worst it's been so far is 2 2hr slots and one 4hr slot every 24 hours (so 8 off per day) It's not winter though, and we tend not to heat our homes like Europe. WiFi and fibre boxes are on DC UPSs so working online is OK. Hard to do laundry and run the dishwasher though when power's only on for 4 hours at a time.
- booboofixer 4y ago
  Had DC UPSs where I’m from as well, they’re great for wifi and simple lighting.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
Maybe a stupid question. What happens to your freezer items in a country with continous load shedding? Do people just waste that food or are the load shedding periods short enough to avoid thawing?
- booboofixer 4y ago
  Freezers are well insulated. As long as nobody opened it up for too long, things stayed good and frozen for 3 to 4 hours without power. However, we have thrown food from the fridge away after 8 or 10 hours power outages, and food from the deep freezer after whole day power outages.

RichardCNormos 4y ago

Or, if you live in California. 3 hours is nothing! A while ago, we went for a week without power in the northern part of the state.

booboofixer 4y ago
Why?
- tb_technical 4y ago
  California's energy policy needs a little work. Their environmental laws made creating power plants impossible in their state, so they almost exclusively purchase power from other states at sub-optimal rates for any new power demand. Edit: phrasing and tone
  - gsbraitberg 4y ago
    In 2021, California produced about 200 TWh in-state and imported about 85 TWh, meaning they imported about 30% of total electricity. Not exactly "almost exclusively" imports. Also, California regulations certainly permit building new power plants (and many new plants have been built in the past decade), just not new coal fired plants. https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2021-total-system-electric-generation https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo...
    - Alupis 4y ago
      > just not new coal fired plants. Or hydro-electric, or nuclear, or anything that would have meaningful impact on the state's situation. More solar and wind are great, but they do not respond well to surges in demand, and there is no current way to store energy either. So some impressive total production number might sound great, but the reality does not follow unfortunately. For a non-trivial portion of the state, electricity isn't a guarantee throughout the year anymore.
      - tb_technical 4y ago
        When I lived in LA it was frustrating explaining (to my out of state friends) how bad the power situation was. I cancelled many a DnD game because of it. I eventually got so sick of it , that I left the state for good. I've never been happier.
    - tb_technical 4y ago
      If you chew through the numbers you just posted, you will find that imports from out of state are increasing year over year. Hence, my statement "they almost exclusively purchase power from other states at sub-optimal rates for any new power demand"
- RichardCNormos 4y ago
  PG&E, our regulated monopoly electrical utility, turns the power off during hot, windy days during the summer so that they can avoid liability for starting wildfires. They never maintained their equipment, so it fails and starts massive fires.
  - booboofixer 4y ago
    Fascinating
bilbo0s 4y ago
That's nothing. You want to learn what to do during winter power outages? Join us down in Houston! Or anywhere in Texas for that matter.
standardUser 4y ago
I lived in California for 30 years and the only time I remember any serious issues with power was back in 2000-2001 during the famous electricity crisis. But for some reason this idea endures that California has problems with their grid. Do they really? Because other than that one acute crisis I didn't have a problem with blackouts (that I can remember) for 20 freaking years. That's a pretty good record. It's a big state, so maybe the Bay Area has just fared better than other regions?
- bumbledraven 4y ago
  It's been getting worse lately. The average amount of time each residential PG&E customer was without power due to a sustained outage has increased from 1.9 hours/year in 2016 to 3.6 hours/year in 2021. https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/outages/planning-and-preparedness/safety-and-preparedness/grid-reliability/electric-reliability-reports/electric-reliability-reports.page https://www.pge.com/en_US/residential/outages/planning-and-p...
- Alupis 4y ago
  PG&E started voluntarily turning off power to entire towns to avoid fire hazards... fire hazards that were self-made and exist only because of other failures that have piled up for the past few decades. So the current situation is something along the lines of when the wind blows too much, they shut off the grid. When it blows too little, they shut off the grid. When it gets too hot, they shut off the grid. It's crazy that this is happening in California of all places, but decades of poor policy decisions led to this and it'll take quite a bit of time to undo.
- bonestamp2 4y ago
  I used to live half a mile from a power plant in another state and I had far more outages there than I've had in California. That said, there are constant incentives to reduce peak energy usage, and there were a couple weeks this year where they almost did rolling blackouts. So, they still struggle with meeting demand sometimes.
- eddsh 4y ago
  Stanford had a big power outage recently (this summer) that took out student accommodation, server rooms, etc... due to wild fires.

lkbm 4y ago

> If you have lived in a country with load-shedding and have experienced this before, as far as your average household goes, 3 hours without power is barely an inconvenience. I live in the US (TX) where load shedding is rare, but I did lose power from roughly 11:30a yesterday until ~11:30 today due to a snafu with the power company. Discovered this just prior to my 12pm Zoom meeting. Three hours while I sleep matters not. Three hours when I need my wifi for work is quite annoying. A more robust energy supply should be the goal, but better failure modes would also be of value.

themitigating 4y ago
Texas is disconnected from the national power grid even though it would help. "According to an analysis by the American Council on Renewable Energy, each additional gigawatt of transmission capacity connecting the Texas power grid with neighboring states could have saved nearly $1 billion and prevented blackouts in around 200,000 Texas homes during Winter Storm Uri last year." "House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy that the state’s denizens would prefer a prolonged blackout over federal regulators requiring changes to the system. https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/14/texas-national-power-grids/ https://www.texastribune.org/2022/02/14/texas-national-power... It seems like Texas having a robust power supply is second to ideological virtue signaling by republicans
- alexchamberlain 4y ago
  AFAIK there isn't a national power grid in America- there are at least 5 or so State+ size grids, with loads of smaller ones and a whole bunch of interconnects. I'm fairly sure Texas (ERCOT) has interconnects to other grids.
  - Izkata 4y ago
    5 grids (of which Texas is one), and they're not even just US ones - we share with Canada: https://i.cbc.ca/1.5921020.1613772812!/fileImage/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/original_1180/how-power-is-shared-in-north-america.jpg https://i.cbc.ca/1.5921020.1613772812!/fileImage/httpImage/i... They're then further subdivided into operators: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmission_grid https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_power_transmiss...

bombcar 4y ago

> A well-insulated wall, being necessary for the warmth of a free House, the right of the people to keep and bear R15, shall not be infringed. We lost our furnace during the winter and it took us about a week to realize it, because the house lost heat so slowly. 3 hours should be nothing unless you've no insulation at all, in which case you have other problems.

jstanley 4y ago
Sadly no amount of insulation can keep your internet working.
- bombcar 4y ago
  I'm really disappointed we didn't go for telco-like quality for internet communications. It would be really nice if all the POPs and DSLAMS and stuff ran on -40v so all you had to do was put your modem and router on a UPS and keep your internet up when the power dropped.
- klyrs 4y ago
  And yet, nobody makes bare-copper ethernet cables...
- skybrian 4y ago
  Depending where you live, a cell phone might work as a reasonable backup, along with a USB battery.
SilverBirch 4y ago
Here’s a funny story: the Uk has the worst insulated homes in Europe and we stopped most of the incentives to improve them in 2010 because “we couldn’t afford it” and now we’re on the hook for billions.
- yetanotherloser 4y ago
  It is basically never cold enough to die of cold in the UK. Winter death "surges" are just death by NHS. Anyway insulation is only worth bothering with if you give up on ventilation (excepting expensive heat-recovery mechanical ventilation very few people have in any country) which is far more important - being a bit chilly is easily fixed with tweed but lack of fresh air really fucks you up. Turn off the heat, open a bloody window and put a jacket on! I for one am grateful the UK managed to keep loads of nice Victorian townhouses because the Luftwaffe weren't that great at their jobs. They're nice, proper high ceilings and woodwork. I agree with you that the government energy subsidy we have now is appalling. Should be dumped immediately. I'm paying £15/mo less than I did before - this is the most stupid use of national debt ever devised, I would rather pay what energy actually costs than be forced to be complicit in this.

_morgs_ 4y ago

In South Africa we've been having load shedding for a record amount of time this year. Worst it's been so far is 2 2hr slots and one 4hr slot every 24 hours (so 8 off per day) It's not winter though, and we tend not to heat our homes like Europe. WiFi and fibre boxes are on DC UPSs so working online is OK. Hard to do laundry and run the dishwasher though when power's only on for 4 hours at a time.

booboofixer 4y ago
Had DC UPSs where I’m from as well, they’re great for wifi and simple lighting.

DoingIsLearning 4y ago

Maybe a stupid question. What happens to your freezer items in a country with continous load shedding? Do people just waste that food or are the load shedding periods short enough to avoid thawing?

booboofixer 4y ago
Freezers are well insulated. As long as nobody opened it up for too long, things stayed good and frozen for 3 to 4 hours without power. However, we have thrown food from the fridge away after 8 or 10 hours power outages, and food from the deep freezer after whole day power outages.