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Which brings to mind a question. What's the point of a gun buyback if they won't accept 3D printed guns? If it's to get guns off the street, it seems like you'

by Kamq 4y ago

Which brings to mind a question. What's the point of a gun buyback if they won't accept 3D printed guns? If it's to get guns off the street, it seems like you'd explicitly want to get cheap guns that are hard to trace (such as 3D printed guns). Or is this just turning into a ceremonial thing that we do because it made sense at one time?

kube-system 4y ago
> What's the point of a gun buyback if they won't accept 3D printed guns? It takes guns off the street that criminals actually use? We'd probably decrease gun crime if we gave criminals garbage like this: https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wktv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/54/154f2b18-4010-11ed-9aae-ab0c908916c6/6335c1b2e7db7.image.jpg?resize=1175%2C665 https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wktv.com/conten...
- Kamq 4y ago
  Interesting hypothesis. It seems like we're planning on testing it.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    What's stopping criminals from printing these today and using them? The answer is that a Hi-Point is the same price and works way better.
    - Kamq 4y ago
      > Hi-Point is the same price and works way better Ok, so the reasoning here is that the price is ~equal, and one is more durable (not necessarily a good thing when you're using something in a crime, but I'm willing to entertain the notion) and effective. This is, reasonably, fair. But the price of a 3D printer has been trending down for, at least, the past decade (and quality improving). If the price continues to drop, do you see this being a reasonable thing to continue doing? If so, at what price do you think would be the inflection point?
      - kube-system 4y ago
        Maybe when SLS printers get down to $200. And/or when the patience required to build one successfully is less than the patience required to steal one. The advantage of traditional manufacturing techniques is not just durability, it’s that it works at all right out of the box, and criminals care that it’s “real” and intimidating.
        Kamq 4y ago
        Does the amount of money you can make creating these things play into it at all? For example, meth is pretty difficult/dangerous to make (relative to things the average person makes), but making it for a profit has caused the knowledge to proliferate. If acceptable printers don't get down to $200, but get down to $400, do you think the ROI gets to the right place? I'm assuming there has to be a market for disposable guns to lower the chances of getting caught (I presume the point would be to melt them down after their use).
        kube-system 4y ago
        Yeah, but meth is illegal. Selling a 3D printed gun in the US is more like trying to sell skunk weed in a place where dispensaries are on every corner. I think the best evidence that criminals don’t want 3D printed guns is that they already exist, and criminals aren’t using them. The advantage of 3D printers is ease of retooling compared to traditional methods. This is why they’re good for prototyping, but not good for mass production. Mass production techniques will always produce better quality/cost balance due to the nature of the processes. The advantage of 3D printing provides no utility to a criminal gun dealer. In places with strict gun control, the guns crimes that happen still rarely use 3D printed guns. Basic metalworking tools are also inexpensive and are a better fit for the purpose.
- maxlybbert 4y ago
  That’s the official goal, but it’s not necessarily what happens (“while many communities include buybacks in their overall gun violence prevention strategies, most research shows these events are ineffective at reducing homicides and suicides,” https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/08/30/gun-buybacks-are-popular-but-are-they-effective https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... ).
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I meant that the type of gun is something that criminals use, not that the specific guns being turned in were destined to become criminal's guns. i.e. turning away 3D printed derringers is not putting a gun on the streets that is likely to be useful for crime.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  If somebody stuck one of those garbage guns in your face and demanded your wallet, you'd be wise to comply. It doesn't even need to actually work to be effective at the sort of crime most handguns are used for.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Yes, but they don't. It's cheaper and more convenient for a criminal to get real guns which are better anyway.
rolph 4y ago
the data, is also of utility. you dont just get guns of the street, you get intelligence regarding traffic, and production.

by Kamq 4y ago

kube-system 4y ago

> What's the point of a gun buyback if they won't accept 3D printed guns? It takes guns off the street that criminals actually use? We'd probably decrease gun crime if we gave criminals garbage like this: https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wktv.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/1/54/154f2b18-4010-11ed-9aae-ab0c908916c6/6335c1b2e7db7.image.jpg?resize=1175%2C665 https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/wktv.com/conten...

Kamq 4y ago
Interesting hypothesis. It seems like we're planning on testing it.
- kube-system 4y ago
  What's stopping criminals from printing these today and using them? The answer is that a Hi-Point is the same price and works way better.
  - Kamq 4y ago
    > Hi-Point is the same price and works way better Ok, so the reasoning here is that the price is ~equal, and one is more durable (not necessarily a good thing when you're using something in a crime, but I'm willing to entertain the notion) and effective. This is, reasonably, fair. But the price of a 3D printer has been trending down for, at least, the past decade (and quality improving). If the price continues to drop, do you see this being a reasonable thing to continue doing? If so, at what price do you think would be the inflection point?
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Maybe when SLS printers get down to $200. And/or when the patience required to build one successfully is less than the patience required to steal one. The advantage of traditional manufacturing techniques is not just durability, it’s that it works at all right out of the box, and criminals care that it’s “real” and intimidating.
      - Kamq 4y ago
        Does the amount of money you can make creating these things play into it at all? For example, meth is pretty difficult/dangerous to make (relative to things the average person makes), but making it for a profit has caused the knowledge to proliferate. If acceptable printers don't get down to $200, but get down to $400, do you think the ROI gets to the right place? I'm assuming there has to be a market for disposable guns to lower the chances of getting caught (I presume the point would be to melt them down after their use).
        kube-system 4y ago
        Yeah, but meth is illegal. Selling a 3D printed gun in the US is more like trying to sell skunk weed in a place where dispensaries are on every corner. I think the best evidence that criminals don’t want 3D printed guns is that they already exist, and criminals aren’t using them. The advantage of 3D printers is ease of retooling compared to traditional methods. This is why they’re good for prototyping, but not good for mass production. Mass production techniques will always produce better quality/cost balance due to the nature of the processes. The advantage of 3D printing provides no utility to a criminal gun dealer. In places with strict gun control, the guns crimes that happen still rarely use 3D printed guns. Basic metalworking tools are also inexpensive and are a better fit for the purpose.
maxlybbert 4y ago
That’s the official goal, but it’s not necessarily what happens (“while many communities include buybacks in their overall gun violence prevention strategies, most research shows these events are ineffective at reducing homicides and suicides,” https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2022/08/30/gun-buybacks-are-popular-but-are-they-effective https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/sta... ).
- kube-system 4y ago
  I meant that the type of gun is something that criminals use, not that the specific guns being turned in were destined to become criminal's guns. i.e. turning away 3D printed derringers is not putting a gun on the streets that is likely to be useful for crime.
MichaelCollins 4y ago
If somebody stuck one of those garbage guns in your face and demanded your wallet, you'd be wise to comply. It doesn't even need to actually work to be effective at the sort of crime most handguns are used for.
- kube-system 4y ago
  Yes, but they don't. It's cheaper and more convenient for a criminal to get real guns which are better anyway.

rolph 4y ago

the data, is also of utility. you dont just get guns of the street, you get intelligence regarding traffic, and production.