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No one said they aren't. Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no o

No one said they aren't. Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? China being an adversary should have nothing to do with it? If we can't point out such a problem with an app, then the road we're going down is we can't say anything else about China either.

AlexandrB 4y ago
I think all of these apps behave deplorably. But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. The solutions offered also often target TikTok specifically - like banning TikTok in the US, or placing some kind of restrictions on how TikTok can operate. Why is the solution not to make broad data collection illegal? Edit: > So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? Not at all - those things are genuinely awful, but one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today. This isn't something that happened in the past. I think the comparison is quite valid.
- ChemSpider 4y ago
  Based on published information, Tiktok is behaving significantly worse than any other major player in this market. Just one example: There are no reports of Meta (etc) logging my keystrokes and data OUTSIDE of what I enter into the app/website. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049774
  - hello_friendos 4y ago
  - rchaud 4y ago
    What published information? The link you posted is from Consumer Reports which says nothing of the sort.
- ravenstine 4y ago
  > But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. It comes down to what you believe is the lesser of two evil systems of governance. I will not hesitate to criticize the United States, NATO, the central banks, or the IMF, and I have many problems with them; I would still prefer to live under their system as opposed to the kind of world that China proposes. I live in the United States, and to an extent I want the United States to remain stable. Why should I not be concerned that an adversary in both policy and philosophy gets to have as much influence as TikTok over the minds of millions of Americans? The only way I could see viewing US tech and China tech as equal is if one has no connection to the soil on which they stand, or perhaps if they live outside those two systems. I don't live outside of those systems. I live in the United States. I don't think the future proposed by the United States or any of its tech companies is as bad as what China proposes to bring to the world. > one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today. Again, that is a point that no one is disputing. And why emphasize today? As far as I am aware, TikTok doesn't plan to mine data. It already does. Regardless, I can't see how it's defensible to allow an adversary that much influence over our psychology. It's one thing for us to essentially cause our own problems, but it's another to invite problems from nations that would be thrilled for the United States to either be under its complete control or not exist at all.
masterof0 4y ago
I don't like companies which business model is spying on people , regardless who their master is. To answer your question(if you really want an answer) , is, hypocrisy, many people have a problem with Alice pointing out that Bob did X thing, when Alice in the first place have also done said X thing. Not justifying anything, or anyone whatsoever, just telling raven how some people might think.
- themitigating 4y ago
  Alice and bob are people who committed those things. A citizen in the US has nothing to do with ww2 Japanese internment camps, slavery, etc so it's not hypocrisy to point out what another country is doing.
  - masterof0 4y ago
    If your country do those things, some people might feel is hypocritical, because a citizen of {evil_country} have nothing to do with {crimes}. Just because Alice's country did it long ago, doesn't mean Alice have the higher moral ground over Bob. Again, just pointing out what it is. Don't care, TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat,etc can dissappear tomorrow, and I wouldn't notice. Edit: Typo
rchaud 4y ago
Speak out all you like.It didn't affect Apple one iota when their factories in China were known for working people to their deaths to churn out more iPhones for the ravenous consumer. It won't do a damn thing to reduce TikTok's growth either. Nothing will until TT becomes replaced by the next thing.
vkou 4y ago
> Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." The reason there's always someone starting a subthread about it is because Silicon Valley and the United States has, had, and will continue to have all the same incentives and problems for international users. [1] It's not a very interesting conversation, because it adds nothing that hasn't been said a million times, but neither does another lap around the 'China bad' rhetorical track. [1] And also domestic users, but they have some means of recourse for it.

AlexandrB 4y ago

I think all of these apps behave deplorably. But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. The solutions offered also often target TikTok specifically - like banning TikTok in the US, or placing some kind of restrictions on how TikTok can operate. Why is the solution not to make broad data collection illegal? Edit: > So should no one speak out against concentration camps, cultural genocide, and mass sterilization in China today because the same things have happened historically in the United States? Not at all - those things are genuinely awful, but one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today. This isn't something that happened in the past. I think the comparison is quite valid.

ChemSpider 4y ago
Based on published information, Tiktok is behaving significantly worse than any other major player in this market. Just one example: There are no reports of Meta (etc) logging my keystrokes and data OUTSIDE of what I enter into the app/website. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049774 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=33049774
- hello_friendos 4y ago
- rchaud 4y ago
  What published information? The link you posted is from Consumer Reports which says nothing of the sort.
ravenstine 4y ago
> But these kinds of comments try to imply that TikTok is uniquely dangerous when it's just more of the same. It comes down to what you believe is the lesser of two evil systems of governance. I will not hesitate to criticize the United States, NATO, the central banks, or the IMF, and I have many problems with them; I would still prefer to live under their system as opposed to the kind of world that China proposes. I live in the United States, and to an extent I want the United States to remain stable. Why should I not be concerned that an adversary in both policy and philosophy gets to have as much influence as TikTok over the minds of millions of Americans? The only way I could see viewing US tech and China tech as equal is if one has no connection to the soil on which they stand, or perhaps if they live outside those two systems. I don't live outside of those systems. I live in the United States. I don't think the future proposed by the United States or any of its tech companies is as bad as what China proposes to bring to the world. > one key difference is that Facebook, Google, and others are still siphoning up people's data today. Again, that is a point that no one is disputing. And why emphasize today? As far as I am aware, TikTok doesn't plan to mine data. It already does. Regardless, I can't see how it's defensible to allow an adversary that much influence over our psychology. It's one thing for us to essentially cause our own problems, but it's another to invite problems from nations that would be thrilled for the United States to either be under its complete control or not exist at all.

masterof0 4y ago

I don't like companies which business model is spying on people , regardless who their master is. To answer your question(if you really want an answer) , is, hypocrisy, many people have a problem with Alice pointing out that Bob did X thing, when Alice in the first place have also done said X thing. Not justifying anything, or anyone whatsoever, just telling raven how some people might think.

themitigating 4y ago
Alice and bob are people who committed those things. A citizen in the US has nothing to do with ww2 Japanese internment camps, slavery, etc so it's not hypocrisy to point out what another country is doing.
- masterof0 4y ago
  If your country do those things, some people might feel is hypocritical, because a citizen of {evil_country} have nothing to do with {crimes}. Just because Alice's country did it long ago, doesn't mean Alice have the higher moral ground over Bob. Again, just pointing out what it is. Don't care, TikTok, Facebook, Snapchat,etc can dissappear tomorrow, and I wouldn't notice. Edit: Typo

rchaud 4y ago

Speak out all you like.It didn't affect Apple one iota when their factories in China were known for working people to their deaths to churn out more iPhones for the ravenous consumer. It won't do a damn thing to reduce TikTok's growth either. Nothing will until TT becomes replaced by the next thing.

vkou 4y ago

> Yet there's always someone in any given thread about a Chinese app jumping to its defense saying "but Silicon Valley." The reason there's always someone starting a subthread about it is because Silicon Valley and the United States has, had, and will continue to have all the same incentives and problems for international users. [1] It's not a very interesting conversation, because it adds nothing that hasn't been said a million times, but neither does another lap around the 'China bad' rhetorical track. [1] And also domestic users, but they have some means of recourse for it.