5 ms·

Did Google just admit Apple's Siri is the future of search?

7 points by stritar 15y ago

buster 15y ago
Google Voice Search has been around well before Siri, it's not news that Google is moving in that direction and voice search has been available on my phones for a long time now (not only from Google). Just because Apple markets yet another technology as new and unprecedented doesn't mean it is, sorry. Just for you to know: https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1&c=apps https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1&#3... Most of the apps there are older than Siri. Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s from what i can tell (i neither use voice search nor have an iphone), this looks essentially the same ..
- potatolicious 15y ago
  Siri isn't voice search. It's capable of it "Google [insert keywords here]", but that's not its main selling point, nor its main use case. Siri is unprecedented (in a mass market product, anyways) because it combines NLP with actually doing things, and moves away from the awkward "memorize these bunch of keywords in this order" voice control systems of the past. "Schedule my dentist appointment next Monday at 1." is a much better way of input than the previous status quo of "Calendar. Add Event. Description. Dentist Appointment. Date. December 12. Time. One P.M." It's weird that people consistently harps on Apple for "marketing yet another technology as new and unprecedented" when it isn't - and then bring up a completely different product to "prove" their point.
  - stritar 15y ago
    I perfectly agree. It has less to do with voice control than it does with artificial intelligence.
  - icebraining 15y ago
    Google Calendar -> quick add: "Dentist appointment next monday at 1" -> Added "dentist appointment" on Mon Dec 12, 2011 at 1pm.
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      That's similar, but still not the same thing. The big thing about Siri isn't dictation ability, it's the ability to determine context near-perfectly without any hinting or preparation. Which is to say, Siri doesn't get the "Google Calendar->quick add" part, which makes it much faster to access. I don't have to unlock the phone and go into Calendar to do this - and that's the real big sell. It also makes it a fair bit more complex to implement.
  - buster 15y ago
    Can you point to me how exactly Siri works? I bet it's merely comprehending key words and putting together a search or action that is most likely. Siri doesn't really understand language (else you can point me to proof). In the first case it's not much more then Google Voice Search. I can also write texts, call people, search internet for information on my mobile. Call it what you want, it's Voice Search. The difference here is: Apples marketing.
    - potatolicious 15y ago
      [sigh] This is somewhat typically "engineer". Because the two products are built upon similar base technologies, they are the "same thing", and any differences are nothing more than "marketing". Siri doesn't "understand" language, it is, to the best of my knowledge based on a probabilistic solution. That's really where the similarities end. The innovation here isn't the NLP part, or the probabilistic context determination part. It's the part that ties it into actual concrete actions - it books appointments for me, manages my wakeup times, smartly geofences reminders, etc etc, without me having to touch any UI. It is in some ways a good reflection of Apple's product philosophy - take existing individual bits and link them into a compelling end-to-end solution. Music store? Link to your music library management. Then link it to the playback device itself. Voice recognition? Link it to contextual "understanding". Then link it to actually perform device actions. Each piece is somewhat unremarkable on its own, but string it together right and customers respond. Sure, you can use Siri to do much of the same things Google Voice Search does - directions, showtimes, text search, etc, but that's not really the part that people are clamoring about. There's a certain segment of our community that seem to be able to stare into every single Apple product, every single record-breaking profit quarter, every single raving review, and then be able to say with a perfect deadpan: "it's all just marketing". I suspect this demographic has a high intersection with the "it's just a big iPod" iPad crowd.
      - buster 15y ago
        No, you don't get it. One question: Do you think a Google Search only searches for those keywords without taking other factors in consideration? Based on what i can find (checked the source of some plugins of Siri Proxy) Siri is basically just Voice recognition, not "magic". You can easily fake "intelligence" when binding keywords to actions. Basically google search does the same. What's the difference? The marketing. I'd say those two and Wolfram Alpha are prime examples of this. A nice example i can show you with Wolfram Alpha. As a marketer i would tell you how supernice and innovative Wolfram Alpha is and that you can talk to it and then show you this: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+Berlin+right+now%3F http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+B... Wow, right? Alphas UNDERSTANDS you! It's awesome, buy it! But: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+weather+of+Berlin+right+now http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+wea... Now, that's simple negation that is not understood. It's easy to fix that. It's still not "intelligence" or whatever Apple is calling Siri. It's simple keyword based approach. Unless someone proves to me that the iPhone has the computing power of really understanding humans, it's old technology in a new (and great) design with massive marketing. As always. Once you see that, you'll see that voice searching for "weather Berlin" and asking "How is the weather in Berlin?" is basically the same. The first one is just faster to execute (type or say). Only with the second example you can go all crazy and tell people that you reinvented the whole business. edit: That said, what is wrong with this link is not how Siri works or who is best or whatever. It's the notion of "Apple was right all along, Google not!!" which is just stupid seeing for how long Google was investing in Voice Recognition. It never was a matter of who is wrong, both companies invested in this technology. Why does it alyways come down to "Apple is right" or "Apple has invented X and Company Y just copies it!", it's ridiculous, like the patent law. Let those companies just build and sell their stuff but don't do all this "Apple was first!" shit, it rarely is. Most products of most companies are really genuine!
- icebraining 15y ago
  Agreed. And besides Voice Search, Google has been adding AI functionality; for example, if you search for "Where was Einstein born?", it gives you Ulm, Germany without the user having to open any website. "Where are the UN Headquarters?" works too. Google Search and Siri are simply different approaches to achieve the same goal, which was defined long before any of these projects began, particularly by Sci-fi.
jcollins1991 15y ago
(ignoring the translation to a representation a machine can understand) asking when the best time to sow crops requires domain knowledge and lots of analysis, asking to be called upon a certain event is simply implementing a rule. Sure, something like Siri could be incredibly useful in the future if we can architect it properly, but comparing the current "personal assistant" to a knowledge engine that can answer any possible question is like comparing a Wright Brothers plane to a modern fighter jet. TLDR: author goes far overboard with his conclusion, nothing new ...
- stritar 15y ago
  I think the biggest challenge for software is understanding the question, not actually giving results to a query. Do you remember Watson and Jeopardy? All errors it made came from not knowing what it was asked. Have you tried Siri? It really can give quite surprising responses to complex questions.
stritar 15y ago
Please take a look at an older Siri video, which shows its capabilities of understanding. Perhaps it will help you understand this goes beyond voice control and asking simple questions such as "Where is" or "How much is". http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-assistant/ http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-assistant/

7 points by stritar 15y ago

Google Voice Search has been around well before Siri, it's not news that Google is moving in that direction and voice search has been available on my phones for a long time now (not only from Google). Just because Apple markets yet another technology as new and unprecedented doesn't mean it is, sorry. Just for you to know: https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1&c=apps https://market.android.com/search?q=voice+search&so=1&#3... Most of the apps there are older than Siri. Also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gGbYVvU0Z5s from what i can tell (i neither use voice search nor have an iphone), this looks essentially the same ..

potatolicious 15y ago
Siri isn't voice search. It's capable of it "Google [insert keywords here]", but that's not its main selling point, nor its main use case. Siri is unprecedented (in a mass market product, anyways) because it combines NLP with actually doing things, and moves away from the awkward "memorize these bunch of keywords in this order" voice control systems of the past. "Schedule my dentist appointment next Monday at 1." is a much better way of input than the previous status quo of "Calendar. Add Event. Description. Dentist Appointment. Date. December 12. Time. One P.M." It's weird that people consistently harps on Apple for "marketing yet another technology as new and unprecedented" when it isn't - and then bring up a completely different product to "prove" their point.
- stritar 15y ago
  I perfectly agree. It has less to do with voice control than it does with artificial intelligence.
- icebraining 15y ago
  Google Calendar -> quick add: "Dentist appointment next monday at 1" -> Added "dentist appointment" on Mon Dec 12, 2011 at 1pm.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    That's similar, but still not the same thing. The big thing about Siri isn't dictation ability, it's the ability to determine context near-perfectly without any hinting or preparation. Which is to say, Siri doesn't get the "Google Calendar->quick add" part, which makes it much faster to access. I don't have to unlock the phone and go into Calendar to do this - and that's the real big sell. It also makes it a fair bit more complex to implement.
- buster 15y ago
  Can you point to me how exactly Siri works? I bet it's merely comprehending key words and putting together a search or action that is most likely. Siri doesn't really understand language (else you can point me to proof). In the first case it's not much more then Google Voice Search. I can also write texts, call people, search internet for information on my mobile. Call it what you want, it's Voice Search. The difference here is: Apples marketing.
  - potatolicious 15y ago
    [sigh] This is somewhat typically "engineer". Because the two products are built upon similar base technologies, they are the "same thing", and any differences are nothing more than "marketing". Siri doesn't "understand" language, it is, to the best of my knowledge based on a probabilistic solution. That's really where the similarities end. The innovation here isn't the NLP part, or the probabilistic context determination part. It's the part that ties it into actual concrete actions - it books appointments for me, manages my wakeup times, smartly geofences reminders, etc etc, without me having to touch any UI. It is in some ways a good reflection of Apple's product philosophy - take existing individual bits and link them into a compelling end-to-end solution. Music store? Link to your music library management. Then link it to the playback device itself. Voice recognition? Link it to contextual "understanding". Then link it to actually perform device actions. Each piece is somewhat unremarkable on its own, but string it together right and customers respond. Sure, you can use Siri to do much of the same things Google Voice Search does - directions, showtimes, text search, etc, but that's not really the part that people are clamoring about. There's a certain segment of our community that seem to be able to stare into every single Apple product, every single record-breaking profit quarter, every single raving review, and then be able to say with a perfect deadpan: "it's all just marketing". I suspect this demographic has a high intersection with the "it's just a big iPod" iPad crowd.
    - buster 15y ago
      No, you don't get it. One question: Do you think a Google Search only searches for those keywords without taking other factors in consideration? Based on what i can find (checked the source of some plugins of Siri Proxy) Siri is basically just Voice recognition, not "magic". You can easily fake "intelligence" when binding keywords to actions. Basically google search does the same. What's the difference? The marketing. I'd say those two and Wolfram Alpha are prime examples of this. A nice example i can show you with Wolfram Alpha. As a marketer i would tell you how supernice and innovative Wolfram Alpha is and that you can talk to it and then show you this: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+Berlin+right+now%3F http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=How+is+the+weather+in+B... Wow, right? Alphas UNDERSTANDS you! It's awesome, buy it! But: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+weather+of+Berlin+right+now http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=Don%27t+tell+me+the+wea... Now, that's simple negation that is not understood. It's easy to fix that. It's still not "intelligence" or whatever Apple is calling Siri. It's simple keyword based approach. Unless someone proves to me that the iPhone has the computing power of really understanding humans, it's old technology in a new (and great) design with massive marketing. As always. Once you see that, you'll see that voice searching for "weather Berlin" and asking "How is the weather in Berlin?" is basically the same. The first one is just faster to execute (type or say). Only with the second example you can go all crazy and tell people that you reinvented the whole business. edit: That said, what is wrong with this link is not how Siri works or who is best or whatever. It's the notion of "Apple was right all along, Google not!!" which is just stupid seeing for how long Google was investing in Voice Recognition. It never was a matter of who is wrong, both companies invested in this technology. Why does it alyways come down to "Apple is right" or "Apple has invented X and Company Y just copies it!", it's ridiculous, like the patent law. Let those companies just build and sell their stuff but don't do all this "Apple was first!" shit, it rarely is. Most products of most companies are really genuine!
icebraining 15y ago
Agreed. And besides Voice Search, Google has been adding AI functionality; for example, if you search for "Where was Einstein born?", it gives you Ulm, Germany without the user having to open any website. "Where are the UN Headquarters?" works too. Google Search and Siri are simply different approaches to achieve the same goal, which was defined long before any of these projects began, particularly by Sci-fi.

jcollins1991 15y ago

(ignoring the translation to a representation a machine can understand) asking when the best time to sow crops requires domain knowledge and lots of analysis, asking to be called upon a certain event is simply implementing a rule. Sure, something like Siri could be incredibly useful in the future if we can architect it properly, but comparing the current "personal assistant" to a knowledge engine that can answer any possible question is like comparing a Wright Brothers plane to a modern fighter jet. TLDR: author goes far overboard with his conclusion, nothing new ...

stritar 15y ago
I think the biggest challenge for software is understanding the question, not actually giving results to a query. Do you remember Watson and Jeopardy? All errors it made came from not knowing what it was asked. Have you tried Siri? It really can give quite surprising responses to complex questions.

stritar 15y ago

Please take a look at an older Siri video, which shows its capabilities of understanding. Perhaps it will help you understand this goes beyond voice control and asking simple questions such as "Where is" or "How much is". http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-assistant/ http://mashable.com/2011/10/03/iphone-5-assistant/