4 ms·

"We don't think they're competent enough to be a competitor" is a bad way to judge whether you're competing with someone. It's like Apple laughing at the IBM PC

"We don't think they're competent enough to be a competitor" is a bad way to judge whether you're competing with someone. It's like Apple laughing at the IBM PC.

chaostheory 4y ago
Looking at the new videos related to the upcoming Quest Pro that will be announced next week, the simulavr guys are dead wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/xwjzni/meta_quest_pro_mixed_reality_passthrough https://www.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/xwjzni/meta_quest...
- georgewsinger 4y ago
  What you're seeing: a Meta headset tethered to a laptop over WiFi running Immersed. What you're not seeing: a standalone VR headset running a VR Desktop OS natively with bleeding edge pixel density (i.e., like the Simula One). We understand that Meta has some cool tools in its app store which can be used to get a feel for VR computing. But analogously, you could also purchase word processors for early gaming consoles too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtariWriter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtariWriter Our view is that dedicated VR computing devices are what the market actually needs.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    apple would agree
  - spiffytech 4y ago
    Does Simula's tethered option affect this calculus?
    - georgewsinger 4y ago
      A bit, but not much. Our tethered option is for people who want to connect to beefier hosts because they need the extra GPU power (or want to use our headset's high pixel density for gaming purposes). We've sold very few of them though. Our primary offering is our standalone unit.
  - ynx 4y ago
    If that image is showing what I think it is (because I might have written a part of it if it is), that's not actually tethered.
  - goosedragons 4y ago
    Is it really fair to call 8 bit Atari computer line (on which AtariWriter runs) gaming consoles? They had built-in keyboards, had built-in BASIC, would let you attach peripherals like a disc drive or a printer and let you program in assembly. And could be expanded with RAM expansions and 80 column cards. Of course the later XEGS blurred the line but it's also a bit like suggesting the Amiga or Macintosh were not computers because of the Commodore CD32 and Apple Pippin were a thing.
  - antifa 4y ago
    > Our view is that dedicated VR computing devices are what the market actually needs. My view is the market needs a product that does not require an internet connection, Facebook account, Microsoft account, windows PC, or equivalent restriction-ware.
- richard___ 4y ago
  The AR pass through in that clip blows the simulavr pass through wayyyyy out the water!!!
  - georgewsinger 4y ago
    We're working on camera boards now for our AR Mode (it will likely be featured in our an engineering update next week). After our boards are finished (~2-4 weeks), we'll be able to integrate them into our review units for our first integrated camera tests.
  - girvo 4y ago
    That clip is a demo with a heap of demo-magic going on.
- mlajtos 4y ago
  Wait, is that demo rigged? The keyboard in passthrough is not the keyboard of the MacBook.
  - bagels 4y ago
    Definitely some demo-only things going on there. Pass through keyboard is different, and this person just happens to go in to a meeting where the table is in the same orientation and size as the one in his house/office?
taneq 4y ago
Imagine if during the Microsoft antitrust case, they subpoenaed Apple, Compaq, Oracle, Sony and some small startups for their entire short- and long-term business strategy documentation. Oh, and all their user metrics and any telemetry.
- jboy55 4y ago
  Microsoft subpoenaed MCI, AOL, Intel, Novell others, including all email messages related. https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-microsoft-intel-antitrust-case/page/0/2 https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-... https://cyber.harvard.edu/msdoj/archive.html https://cyber.harvard.edu/msdoj/archive.html In that case, "On September 18, 1998, believing that certain statements from Netscape employees reported in Lessons offered succor for its defense, Microsoft subpoenaed the professors' notes, tape recordings and transcripts of interviews, and correspondence with interview subjects. " https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1179769.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1179769.html Here is Google subpoenaing Microsoft, https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/microsoft-faces-subpoena-in-google-s-antitrust-case-in-united-states-121073100298_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/microso... AMD subpoenaing Microsoft, https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-microsoft-intel-antitrust-case/page/0/2 https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-... Here is a judge standing up an squashing a Microsoft subpoena of Oracle and Sun , https://www.networkworld.com/article/2310247/microsoft-fails-in-sun--oracle-subpoena-bid.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2310247/microsoft-fails... Oil Price Information Service, a Oil Industry trade publication was subponeaded in a price fixing case to hand over unpublished information, https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/oil-industry-news-source-fights-subpoenas-in-us-antitrust-suit/ https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/oil-industry-...
georgewsinger 4y ago
Just want to clarify that I would never characterize Zuckerberg or Meta as "incompetent". Quite the contrary. I would instead more characterize the situation as Paul Graham did in one of his essays[1]: > A lot of startups worry "what if Google builds something like us?" Actually big companies are not the ones you have to worry about-- not even Google. The people at Google are smart, but no smarter than you; they're not as motivated, because Google is not going to go out of business if this one product fails; and even at Google they have a lot of bureaucracy to slow them down. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/startuplessons.html http://www.paulgraham.com/startuplessons.html
- Sebb767 4y ago
  To be honest, Meta seems pretty afraid of going out of business if their metaverse-pitch ends up failing - in fact, I'm pretty sure the whole metaverse push just happened because FB was (is) loosing ground fast.
  - numpad0 4y ago
    I think Zuckerberg is afraid of his core beliefs breaking, that a man has a face and his name. None of existing VR platforms are made that way and are successful at the same time.

"We don't think they're competent enough to be a competitor" is a bad way to judge whether you're competing with someone. It's like Apple laughing at the IBM PC.

chaostheory 4y ago

Looking at the new videos related to the upcoming Quest Pro that will be announced next week, the simulavr guys are dead wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/xwjzni/meta_quest_pro_mixed_reality_passthrough https://www.reddit.com/r/AR_MR_XR/comments/xwjzni/meta_quest...

georgewsinger 4y ago
What you're seeing: a Meta headset tethered to a laptop over WiFi running Immersed. What you're not seeing: a standalone VR headset running a VR Desktop OS natively with bleeding edge pixel density (i.e., like the Simula One). We understand that Meta has some cool tools in its app store which can be used to get a feel for VR computing. But analogously, you could also purchase word processors for early gaming consoles too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtariWriter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AtariWriter Our view is that dedicated VR computing devices are what the market actually needs.
- wahnfrieden 4y ago
  apple would agree
- spiffytech 4y ago
  Does Simula's tethered option affect this calculus?
  - georgewsinger 4y ago
    A bit, but not much. Our tethered option is for people who want to connect to beefier hosts because they need the extra GPU power (or want to use our headset's high pixel density for gaming purposes). We've sold very few of them though. Our primary offering is our standalone unit.
- ynx 4y ago
  If that image is showing what I think it is (because I might have written a part of it if it is), that's not actually tethered.
- goosedragons 4y ago
  Is it really fair to call 8 bit Atari computer line (on which AtariWriter runs) gaming consoles? They had built-in keyboards, had built-in BASIC, would let you attach peripherals like a disc drive or a printer and let you program in assembly. And could be expanded with RAM expansions and 80 column cards. Of course the later XEGS blurred the line but it's also a bit like suggesting the Amiga or Macintosh were not computers because of the Commodore CD32 and Apple Pippin were a thing.
- antifa 4y ago
  > Our view is that dedicated VR computing devices are what the market actually needs. My view is the market needs a product that does not require an internet connection, Facebook account, Microsoft account, windows PC, or equivalent restriction-ware.
richard___ 4y ago
The AR pass through in that clip blows the simulavr pass through wayyyyy out the water!!!
- georgewsinger 4y ago
  We're working on camera boards now for our AR Mode (it will likely be featured in our an engineering update next week). After our boards are finished (~2-4 weeks), we'll be able to integrate them into our review units for our first integrated camera tests.
- girvo 4y ago
  That clip is a demo with a heap of demo-magic going on.
mlajtos 4y ago
Wait, is that demo rigged? The keyboard in passthrough is not the keyboard of the MacBook.
- bagels 4y ago
  Definitely some demo-only things going on there. Pass through keyboard is different, and this person just happens to go in to a meeting where the table is in the same orientation and size as the one in his house/office?

taneq 4y ago

Imagine if during the Microsoft antitrust case, they subpoenaed Apple, Compaq, Oracle, Sony and some small startups for their entire short- and long-term business strategy documentation. Oh, and all their user metrics and any telemetry.

jboy55 4y ago
Microsoft subpoenaed MCI, AOL, Intel, Novell others, including all email messages related. https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-microsoft-intel-antitrust-case/page/0/2 https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-... https://cyber.harvard.edu/msdoj/archive.html https://cyber.harvard.edu/msdoj/archive.html In that case, "On September 18, 1998, believing that certain statements from Netscape employees reported in Lessons offered succor for its defense, Microsoft subpoenaed the professors' notes, tape recordings and transcripts of interviews, and correspondence with interview subjects. " https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1179769.html https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-1st-circuit/1179769.html Here is Google subpoenaing Microsoft, https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/microsoft-faces-subpoena-in-google-s-antitrust-case-in-united-states-121073100298_1.html https://www.business-standard.com/article/technology/microso... AMD subpoenaing Microsoft, https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-microsoft-intel-antitrust-case/page/0/2 https://www.networkcomputing.com/data-centers/amd-subpoenas-... Here is a judge standing up an squashing a Microsoft subpoena of Oracle and Sun , https://www.networkworld.com/article/2310247/microsoft-fails-in-sun--oracle-subpoena-bid.html https://www.networkworld.com/article/2310247/microsoft-fails... Oil Price Information Service, a Oil Industry trade publication was subponeaded in a price fixing case to hand over unpublished information, https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/oil-industry-news-source-fights-subpoenas-in-us-antitrust-suit/ https://www.competitionpolicyinternational.com/oil-industry-...

georgewsinger 4y ago

Just want to clarify that I would never characterize Zuckerberg or Meta as "incompetent". Quite the contrary. I would instead more characterize the situation as Paul Graham did in one of his essays[1]: > A lot of startups worry "what if Google builds something like us?" Actually big companies are not the ones you have to worry about-- not even Google. The people at Google are smart, but no smarter than you; they're not as motivated, because Google is not going to go out of business if this one product fails; and even at Google they have a lot of bureaucracy to slow them down. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/startuplessons.html http://www.paulgraham.com/startuplessons.html

Sebb767 4y ago
To be honest, Meta seems pretty afraid of going out of business if their metaverse-pitch ends up failing - in fact, I'm pretty sure the whole metaverse push just happened because FB was (is) loosing ground fast.
- numpad0 4y ago
  I think Zuckerberg is afraid of his core beliefs breaking, that a man has a face and his name. None of existing VR platforms are made that way and are successful at the same time.