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> We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years

> We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) Please, this is absurd. No president has had more of his associates go to jail than Trump [1], and Mueller's investigation found that Trump knew about Russian interference, chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2]. And now we know that he stole Top Secret/SCI documents from the country [3], and has yet to return all of them [4]. These attempts to make "the Biden crime family" a meme are very weak and fall flat on their face. [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-whove-been-arrested-indicted-or-jailed https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-... [2] https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-l... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-house-records-national-archives.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-h...

Alupis 4y ago
A few guys going to jail for unpaid taxes decades before does not help your view that the Mueller Investigation was a smashing success. They ruined a bunch of lives for cheap political gain, found zero evidence of collusion with Russia, and proved the insinuation of collusion was fake from the beginning as we now know but won't admit. You only make this point even stronger. > And now we know that he stole Top Secret/SCI documents from the country, and has yet to return all of them This is very much an unfinished story. But, nothing I say will change your mind, and no real facts coming out will change it either. Which is the point the GP was making... despite reality, we all pretend our team does no wrong.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  > This is very much an unfinished story. And the story about Hunter's laptop isn't? Do you see how you're giving yourself a pass but you want to "wait for the whole story" when the DOJ successfully executed a search warrant for top secret documents on the former president?
  - Alupis 4y ago
    No, not at all. We have all of the content from Hunter's Laptop at this time, and there is no investigation that will happen. We know for a fact the story was buried deliberately, we even have the likes of Mark Zuckerberg corroborating as much, indicating the FBI directed Facebook to suppress "misinformation" about the Biden campaign. We do not have all the content from the Classified Documents story - in fact it's in court right this very second being hammered out. So no... this isn't a free pass of any sort. > DOJ successfully executed a search warrant for top secret documents on the former president I fail to see how this means there was wrong doing. Are we not waiting for the case to actually be litigated, or have we already made up our mind before the facts are known? AKA - what the GP asserted and you have fallen straight into.
    - phailhaus 4y ago
      Given that you have been complaining about cherrypicking facts/narratives by the other side, you need to acknowledge the fact that you are doing that at this very moment. You are handwaving away one of the biggest stories in the DOJ's history, a search warrant executed against a former president. We know he has top secret documents, we know they were not declassified, and we know they were held negligently while mixed up with magazines in a comically insecure facility. You have to admit that this is as big if not bigger than "Hunter's laptop", because otherwise all you're really saying is "I want them to talk about MY stories and not THEIRS!"
      - Alupis 4y ago
        > We know he has top secret documents We do. > we know they were not declassified We do not know this, actually. That is literally what is being litigated at this very moment. > and we know they were held negligently while mixed up with magazines in a comically insecure facility We do not know yet if this even matters... > a search warrant executed against a former president Which is extremely shocking and unusual - actually unprecedented. So far the follow-up investigation has been much more lackluster and much less iron-clad as we were initially led to believe. Political hit job? Perhaps. Malfeasance on part of the former President? Perhaps. We don't yet know. Yet, if you've made up your mind already then you've stepped on the land mine set for you by the GP of this particular thread. > You have to admit that this is as big if not bigger than "Hunter's laptop Not even remotely. Hunter's laptop revealed Hunter sold access and influence to the current president, particularly to nations hostile to this country. We also know Joe Biden not only discussed these business dealings with Hunter, but also received a cut of the payments. He is "The Big Guy".
anon291 4y ago
> chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2] So then it's totally equivalent to the Hunter Biden laptop in that, while perhaps incriminating, there's no obvious criminal conduct (Mueller didn't press charges). However, it still led to americans voting one way, which the polls show would have also been the case had Americans known about the laptop. Either way, people deserve to know. Our vote isn't a criminal conviction.
- phailhaus 4y ago
  > Mueller didn't press charges Fun fact: Mueller had no ability to press charges. He made it clear that it was up to Congress, and would only go as far as to say that "we can't say he didn't obstruct justice", but that it was up to Congress to investigate.
  - anon291 4y ago
    Simple question: by explicitly deciding to censor the hunter biden story, did twitter and facebook prevent americans from learning data that may have changed their vote? The Mueller investigation and its results were widely reported on and disseminated by all media, so it's not equivalent at all. Americans can and did make up their mind regarding that issue.
    - krapp 4y ago
      Simple answer: probably not. Everything Trumpists were claiming - that the laptop contained evidence of the stolen election, that it contained Biden's child porn stash, evidence he created COVID with Fauci, whatever - was obvious misinformation and character assassination, an attempt to repeat the effect of the DNC leaks with Hillary Clinton in 2016, where just the implications of nefarious dealings and "smoking guns" were enough to suppress Democratic Party turnout, or split the vote. The actual story, such as it was, was and remains the nothingest of nothingburgers, and it's doubtful many people, much less enough people to swing the election in Trump's favor, would have cared. Evidence to this effect can be observed in that, after the fact, it hasn't created a backlash of outrage among Democrats. They do hate Biden for a number of reasons, but not for anything in hindsight related to the laptop. Plus, it's absurd to imply that Twitter and Facebook alone comprised the only sources of information or discussion about the laptop, and that Americans were unaware of the story for it having been censored on those platforms. Despite that, it never actually left public discussion as far as I was aware. The laptop failed to gain traction under its own terms, not because it was suppressed by the government.

Alupis 4y ago

A few guys going to jail for unpaid taxes decades before does not help your view that the Mueller Investigation was a smashing success. They ruined a bunch of lives for cheap political gain, found zero evidence of collusion with Russia, and proved the insinuation of collusion was fake from the beginning as we now know but won't admit. You only make this point even stronger. > And now we know that he stole Top Secret/SCI documents from the country, and has yet to return all of them This is very much an unfinished story. But, nothing I say will change your mind, and no real facts coming out will change it either. Which is the point the GP was making... despite reality, we all pretend our team does no wrong.

phailhaus 4y ago
> This is very much an unfinished story. And the story about Hunter's laptop isn't? Do you see how you're giving yourself a pass but you want to "wait for the whole story" when the DOJ successfully executed a search warrant for top secret documents on the former president?
- Alupis 4y ago
  No, not at all. We have all of the content from Hunter's Laptop at this time, and there is no investigation that will happen. We know for a fact the story was buried deliberately, we even have the likes of Mark Zuckerberg corroborating as much, indicating the FBI directed Facebook to suppress "misinformation" about the Biden campaign. We do not have all the content from the Classified Documents story - in fact it's in court right this very second being hammered out. So no... this isn't a free pass of any sort. > DOJ successfully executed a search warrant for top secret documents on the former president I fail to see how this means there was wrong doing. Are we not waiting for the case to actually be litigated, or have we already made up our mind before the facts are known? AKA - what the GP asserted and you have fallen straight into.
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    Given that you have been complaining about cherrypicking facts/narratives by the other side, you need to acknowledge the fact that you are doing that at this very moment. You are handwaving away one of the biggest stories in the DOJ's history, a search warrant executed against a former president. We know he has top secret documents, we know they were not declassified, and we know they were held negligently while mixed up with magazines in a comically insecure facility. You have to admit that this is as big if not bigger than "Hunter's laptop", because otherwise all you're really saying is "I want them to talk about MY stories and not THEIRS!"
    - Alupis 4y ago
      > We know he has top secret documents We do. > we know they were not declassified We do not know this, actually. That is literally what is being litigated at this very moment. > and we know they were held negligently while mixed up with magazines in a comically insecure facility We do not know yet if this even matters... > a search warrant executed against a former president Which is extremely shocking and unusual - actually unprecedented. So far the follow-up investigation has been much more lackluster and much less iron-clad as we were initially led to believe. Political hit job? Perhaps. Malfeasance on part of the former President? Perhaps. We don't yet know. Yet, if you've made up your mind already then you've stepped on the land mine set for you by the GP of this particular thread. > You have to admit that this is as big if not bigger than "Hunter's laptop Not even remotely. Hunter's laptop revealed Hunter sold access and influence to the current president, particularly to nations hostile to this country. We also know Joe Biden not only discussed these business dealings with Hunter, but also received a cut of the payments. He is "The Big Guy".

anon291 4y ago

> chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2] So then it's totally equivalent to the Hunter Biden laptop in that, while perhaps incriminating, there's no obvious criminal conduct (Mueller didn't press charges). However, it still led to americans voting one way, which the polls show would have also been the case had Americans known about the laptop. Either way, people deserve to know. Our vote isn't a criminal conviction.

phailhaus 4y ago
> Mueller didn't press charges Fun fact: Mueller had no ability to press charges. He made it clear that it was up to Congress, and would only go as far as to say that "we can't say he didn't obstruct justice", but that it was up to Congress to investigate.
- anon291 4y ago
  Simple question: by explicitly deciding to censor the hunter biden story, did twitter and facebook prevent americans from learning data that may have changed their vote? The Mueller investigation and its results were widely reported on and disseminated by all media, so it's not equivalent at all. Americans can and did make up their mind regarding that issue.
  - krapp 4y ago
    Simple answer: probably not. Everything Trumpists were claiming - that the laptop contained evidence of the stolen election, that it contained Biden's child porn stash, evidence he created COVID with Fauci, whatever - was obvious misinformation and character assassination, an attempt to repeat the effect of the DNC leaks with Hillary Clinton in 2016, where just the implications of nefarious dealings and "smoking guns" were enough to suppress Democratic Party turnout, or split the vote. The actual story, such as it was, was and remains the nothingest of nothingburgers, and it's doubtful many people, much less enough people to swing the election in Trump's favor, would have cared. Evidence to this effect can be observed in that, after the fact, it hasn't created a backlash of outrage among Democrats. They do hate Biden for a number of reasons, but not for anything in hindsight related to the laptop. Plus, it's absurd to imply that Twitter and Facebook alone comprised the only sources of information or discussion about the laptop, and that Americans were unaware of the story for it having been censored on those platforms. Despite that, it never actually left public discussion as far as I was aware. The laptop failed to gain traction under its own terms, not because it was suppressed by the government.