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How will this work when reality is partisan? The Hunter Biden laptop story was a debunked conspiracy by the “experts” until it wasn’t, and the recent Chinese el

How will this work when reality is partisan? The Hunter Biden laptop story was a debunked conspiracy by the “experts” until it wasn’t, and the recent Chinese election data stolen “conspiracy” (as declared by the NYT) turned out to be true. Yet day after day the stories about Trump and Russia were blasted by major media… until that was totally debunked. It’s like one side decides what is true and the other side is conspiracy until the facts come out, then it’s forgotten completely into the memory hole.

tenebrisalietum 4y ago
The same way democracy works. Shitty, but less shitty than any other way.
- anon291 4y ago
  Democracy requires a free press and free distribution of ideas. Censorship of salient, truthful political information by private or public parties is dangerous to democracy.
adabyron 4y ago
I don't know these cases well but if Twitter (or someone) is able to compile the known information at the time & append as new insights become available that would be the most ideal way I can think of. Hopefully they can be concise & have at minimum, two differing sides sharing non-opinionated references. Or at least stating the leniencies of said references. Though this can still be very hard & lead to many rabbit holes of "Further reading".
noahtallen 4y ago
Some of the conspiracies didn’t conclude the way you say they do, or at least not completely. As far as I can tell, the current “consensus” is that the Hunter Biden laptop, while real, can’t prove any unethical behavior on the part of the president. And the Russian stuff — while Muller couldn’t prove that Trump asked Russia for help (beyond the video of him asking for it in camera, perhaps as a joke), it is still true that Russia played a severe part to helping Trump’s campaign. So in my opinion the overall narrative of those stories (Russia interfered in the election to help Trump to his delight and Hunter Biden’s laptop doesn’t mean much) are still true to this day. I think the prevailing narratives when the stories break leaned on facets that were more true: Russia was doing very concerning things. This laptop doesn’t contain proof of much of anything. Trump stated on camera he wanted Russia’s help. Etc.
- Alupis 4y ago
  I think your post only highlights the points the parent was making - we pick and choose what "facts" we want to believe and then never change our opinion. When these "facts" are debunked days, weeks, months or years later, we just move on and pretend it didn't happen or talk out of the side of our mouth about how there's still some sliver truth there. If it doesn't help our team, then it can't possibly be true. Objectively, Hunter's laptop is a scandal of epic proportions. It's very difficult to view it's content and revelations as anything but deeply unethical - and it's impossible to believe "The Big Guy" is not in fact Joe Biden, our President. We even had one of Hunter's former business partners come out and explicitly state it - yet nobody wants to talk about that either. Additionally, it's impossible to not conclude the FBI was deeply involved in a cover up right at election time to suppress this information. However, here we are, trying to say it means nothing. We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) and have mountains of it against the Biden family... yet nobody cares. Years of investigations catalyzed by a fake dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign... yet nobody wants to talk about that either. Perhaps we're too far lost at this point...
  - phailhaus 4y ago
    > We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) Please, this is absurd. No president has had more of his associates go to jail than Trump [1], and Mueller's investigation found that Trump knew about Russian interference, chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2]. And now we know that he stole Top Secret/SCI documents from the country [3], and has yet to return all of them [4]. These attempts to make "the Biden crime family" a meme are very weak and fall flat on their face. [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-whove-been-arrested-indicted-or-jailed https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-... [2] https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-l... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-house-records-national-archives.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-h...
trasz 4y ago
Reality was always partisan like that. The only thing that changed is that now you can see the other ones.

tenebrisalietum 4y ago

The same way democracy works. Shitty, but less shitty than any other way.

anon291 4y ago
Democracy requires a free press and free distribution of ideas. Censorship of salient, truthful political information by private or public parties is dangerous to democracy.

adabyron 4y ago

I don't know these cases well but if Twitter (or someone) is able to compile the known information at the time & append as new insights become available that would be the most ideal way I can think of. Hopefully they can be concise & have at minimum, two differing sides sharing non-opinionated references. Or at least stating the leniencies of said references. Though this can still be very hard & lead to many rabbit holes of "Further reading".

noahtallen 4y ago

Some of the conspiracies didn’t conclude the way you say they do, or at least not completely. As far as I can tell, the current “consensus” is that the Hunter Biden laptop, while real, can’t prove any unethical behavior on the part of the president. And the Russian stuff — while Muller couldn’t prove that Trump asked Russia for help (beyond the video of him asking for it in camera, perhaps as a joke), it is still true that Russia played a severe part to helping Trump’s campaign. So in my opinion the overall narrative of those stories (Russia interfered in the election to help Trump to his delight and Hunter Biden’s laptop doesn’t mean much) are still true to this day. I think the prevailing narratives when the stories break leaned on facets that were more true: Russia was doing very concerning things. This laptop doesn’t contain proof of much of anything. Trump stated on camera he wanted Russia’s help. Etc.

Alupis 4y ago
I think your post only highlights the points the parent was making - we pick and choose what "facts" we want to believe and then never change our opinion. When these "facts" are debunked days, weeks, months or years later, we just move on and pretend it didn't happen or talk out of the side of our mouth about how there's still some sliver truth there. If it doesn't help our team, then it can't possibly be true. Objectively, Hunter's laptop is a scandal of epic proportions. It's very difficult to view it's content and revelations as anything but deeply unethical - and it's impossible to believe "The Big Guy" is not in fact Joe Biden, our President. We even had one of Hunter's former business partners come out and explicitly state it - yet nobody wants to talk about that either. Additionally, it's impossible to not conclude the FBI was deeply involved in a cover up right at election time to suppress this information. However, here we are, trying to say it means nothing. We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) and have mountains of it against the Biden family... yet nobody cares. Years of investigations catalyzed by a fake dossier paid for by the Clinton campaign... yet nobody wants to talk about that either. Perhaps we're too far lost at this point...
- phailhaus 4y ago
  > We accused the Trump family of everything the Biden family is objectively involved with... except we had zero evidence against the Trump family (despite years of relentless investigations) Please, this is absurd. No president has had more of his associates go to jail than Trump [1], and Mueller's investigation found that Trump knew about Russian interference, chose to do nothing since it helped him, and obstructed justice [2]. And now we know that he stole Top Secret/SCI documents from the country [3], and has yet to return all of them [4]. These attempts to make "the Biden crime family" a meme are very weak and fall flat on their face. [1] https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-whove-been-arrested-indicted-or-jailed https://www.thedailybeast.com/all-of-the-trumpworld-figures-... [2] https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download https://www.justice.gov/archives/sco/file/1373816/download [3] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-lago-documents.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/22/us/politics/trump-mar-a-l... [4] https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-house-records-national-archives.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/01/us/politics/trump-white-h...

trasz 4y ago

Reality was always partisan like that. The only thing that changed is that now you can see the other ones.