4 ms·

Is it reasonable to assume that an African American with SAT score in the top band(s) would probably get accepted to a better college than Michigan? There are l

Is it reasonable to assume that an African American with SAT score in the top band(s) would probably get accepted to a better college than Michigan? There are loads of kids here with pretty low scores, so clearly this is not representative of the highest performing students in the US, nor that the race breakdowns are representative of the highest performing students in each race. This only seems to give us information about the admittance criteria of Michigan. Without understanding the distributions of other institutions (especially the more competitive ones), it seems hard to draw stronger conclusions.

thwayunion 4y ago
For CS, getting into Michigan is incredibly competitive. They are tied (at #11) with places like CIT in CS and way above a lot of ivies and elite technical schools. Michigan CS is like Carnegie Mellon CS -- getting into the school for non-CS is waaay easier than getting into the school with the intention to major in CS, and the filter starts at admissions. Michigan is closer to an ivy than a "state school" for CS.
- sweezyjeezy 4y ago
  My question was specific to African Americans, and not specific to CS.
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    CS isn't the only field where Michigan is an excellent and highly selective school. Some state flagships serve as "come all" institutions -- any decent student gets admitted. States like Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota, and I think still Wisconsin come to mind. Michigan doesn't work like that. Lots of their undergraduate programs are extremely competitive, and therefore admissions overall is competitive. Saying "better school than Michigan" is like saying "better school than Carnegie Mellon". The acceptance rate is around 20%. It's not a safety school, for anyone, particularly with an intended major in much of STEM. It's a highly selective institution. Which changes the nature of your question. Thinking of Michigan as a "median school" is not an accurate mental model. If you want a "median school" use Michigan State instead.
    - sweezyjeezy 4y ago
      I never said it is, but I do think there are MORE competitive places out there. People seem to be commenting on assumption that this is representative of races at large, I don't think you can draw that conclusion. You could infer that African American's are basically never in the top band, but you could also think that the ones that are get accepted at the most competitive places. Likewise you could say Asians are MUCH more likely to be in the top band, but you could also say that the most competitive colleges are less likely to accept them, so more likely they go to Michigan. I'm not saying either is true, just commenting that this data on its own is too incomplete to draw the kinds of conclusions people are assuming here.
- yangikan 4y ago
  Do you have to declare a major when you apply? Can't you be ambivalent about it? Or apply for a different major and then switch to CS after you get in?
  - thwayunion 4y ago
    > Do you have to declare a major when you apply? Sometimes. I'm not sure about Michigan's policy here. I would assume no, or at least "ambivalent" is okay. > Or apply for a different major and then switch to CS after you get in? MANY try, few succeed. Not worth the risk if you intend for CS to be your primary major. If you want a double major with CS as the secondary of the two, maybe.
  - commandlinefan 4y ago
    You have to apply to the program (just went through this with my own son this year). If you don't get accepted into your preferred major, you can apply to a different major and then switch, but applicants are warned that that's harder than just getting accepted into the program in the first place.
meragrin_ 4y ago
I think you misunderstand the article. "The state of Michigan required all public HS seniors to take the SAT last year". That's not related to universities or applying to them. It is the data for all high school seniors in the state of Michigan.
- sweezyjeezy 4y ago
  Yep you're correct.
PubliusMI 4y ago
This post isn't about UMich. This is about ALL public high school seniors, who were compelled to take the SAT by the state of Michigan in May 2022.

thwayunion 4y ago

For CS, getting into Michigan is incredibly competitive. They are tied (at #11) with places like CIT in CS and way above a lot of ivies and elite technical schools. Michigan CS is like Carnegie Mellon CS -- getting into the school for non-CS is waaay easier than getting into the school with the intention to major in CS, and the filter starts at admissions. Michigan is closer to an ivy than a "state school" for CS.

sweezyjeezy 4y ago
My question was specific to African Americans, and not specific to CS.
- thwayunion 4y ago
  CS isn't the only field where Michigan is an excellent and highly selective school. Some state flagships serve as "come all" institutions -- any decent student gets admitted. States like Missouri, Kansas, Minnesota, and I think still Wisconsin come to mind. Michigan doesn't work like that. Lots of their undergraduate programs are extremely competitive, and therefore admissions overall is competitive. Saying "better school than Michigan" is like saying "better school than Carnegie Mellon". The acceptance rate is around 20%. It's not a safety school, for anyone, particularly with an intended major in much of STEM. It's a highly selective institution. Which changes the nature of your question. Thinking of Michigan as a "median school" is not an accurate mental model. If you want a "median school" use Michigan State instead.
  - sweezyjeezy 4y ago
    I never said it is, but I do think there are MORE competitive places out there. People seem to be commenting on assumption that this is representative of races at large, I don't think you can draw that conclusion. You could infer that African American's are basically never in the top band, but you could also think that the ones that are get accepted at the most competitive places. Likewise you could say Asians are MUCH more likely to be in the top band, but you could also say that the most competitive colleges are less likely to accept them, so more likely they go to Michigan. I'm not saying either is true, just commenting that this data on its own is too incomplete to draw the kinds of conclusions people are assuming here.
yangikan 4y ago
Do you have to declare a major when you apply? Can't you be ambivalent about it? Or apply for a different major and then switch to CS after you get in?
- thwayunion 4y ago
  > Do you have to declare a major when you apply? Sometimes. I'm not sure about Michigan's policy here. I would assume no, or at least "ambivalent" is okay. > Or apply for a different major and then switch to CS after you get in? MANY try, few succeed. Not worth the risk if you intend for CS to be your primary major. If you want a double major with CS as the secondary of the two, maybe.
- commandlinefan 4y ago
  You have to apply to the program (just went through this with my own son this year). If you don't get accepted into your preferred major, you can apply to a different major and then switch, but applicants are warned that that's harder than just getting accepted into the program in the first place.

meragrin_ 4y ago

I think you misunderstand the article. "The state of Michigan required all public HS seniors to take the SAT last year". That's not related to universities or applying to them. It is the data for all high school seniors in the state of Michigan.

sweezyjeezy 4y ago
Yep you're correct.

PubliusMI 4y ago

This post isn't about UMich. This is about ALL public high school seniors, who were compelled to take the SAT by the state of Michigan in May 2022.