3 ms·

I'm not sure I fully understand the exact timeline from the article, but is it possible that age indirectly played a factor in the students' unhappiness? His m

I'm not sure I fully understand the exact timeline from the article, but is it possible that age indirectly played a factor in the students' unhappiness? His mind for organic chemistry might still be sharp as a tack. But at 84 years old, if he was the students' teacher during the initial part of the pandemic there's probably a chance he struggled with the digital adjustments to doing so many things online and delivered a subpar overall experience. If nothing else, perhaps eyesight and hearing fades a bit with age and makes trying to do stuff through Zoom and other online tools something very difficult for them making office hours and other things a challenge everybody resisted. This means that these students were far behind other years students. By the time they all resumed in-person activities, the teacher might have thought that his students were at the normal level he was used to through decades of experience, but he misread how far behind they were.

Tomte 4y ago
You're heavily speculating about a person, just to write - essentially - a fictional story you happen to like. Your comment is ageist, nothing else.
- brudgers 4y ago
  That's the kind of comment stories like this attract.
- dekken_ 4y ago
  > Your comment is ageist, nothing else. False, this is your opinion, they were careful not to state what is, but what might be the case.
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    I mean it’s literally true the comment is ageist, it’s transparently and shamelessly ageist.
    - logicalmonster 4y ago
      How many news stories from ArsTechnica even mention the subject's age in the first place? Can you please let me know specifically what about my comment was ageist, and specifically shamelessly so? I think I was very reasonable and respectful and clearly indicated that my post was speculation. Thanks Faerie. PS: As an aside, to be very pedantic, the word ageist is a subjective term, not objective. You can say that 2+2=4 is literally true, but can you fairly say that anything is literally ageist when that's subjective? Just something to noodle over about what that word even means.
      - faeriechangling 4y ago
        Ageisms definition if we search “define ageism” is prejudice or discrimination based on age. Saying a 5 year old would be a bad theoretical physicist or that a 90 year old would make a bad NFL linebacker both would constitute prejudices based on age by the strictest definition. Your respectfulness or lack thereof is almost totally irrelevant to if your post is ageist. I don’t see “ageism” as a very useful word anyways since my attempt to narrow the definition makes it painfully subjective.
        logicalmonster 4y ago
        > Saying a 5 year old would be a bad theoretical physicist or that a 90 year old would make a bad NFL linebacker both would constitute prejudices based on age the way I see it. It seems like most people would agree with your examples. Do you view this sort of ageism filter as a useful tool for understanding the world? Does the word ageism automatically imply a negative connotation then?
- cm2012 4y ago
  It's fine to be ageist against someone who is 84 years old. There are severe cognitive declines that almost no one avoids at that age. It is irresponsible to hire an 84 year old for any important job.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    > It's fine to be ageist against someone who is 84 years old. There are severe cognitive declines that almost no one avoids at that age. It is irresponsible to hire an 84 year old for any important job. Would you turn down getting lectures from Donald Knuth even if he's older than dirt? Using age as one tool to understand a complicated world with incomplete information seems fair, but I think you have to judge the individual on their own merits and abilities or you can miss out.
    - xdavidliu 4y ago
      > Would you turn down getting lectures from Donald Knuth even if he's older than dirt? There's a difference between giving lunchtime lectures and teaching an entire course while assigning grades that affect the careers of young people.
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      Knuth was the first thing that popped into my head, thanks for posting this so I didn't have to.
  - coffeeblack 4y ago
    “almost no one” You managed to contradict yourself within the same sentence.
Y-bar 4y ago
I think these two sections speak for themselves: > "NYU had in Professor Maitland Jones a faculty member with a one-year appointment specifically to teach organic chemistry," wrote John Beckman, a spokesperson for NYU, in a statement to Reason. "In one of his organic chemistry classes in the spring 2022 there were, among other troubling indicators, a very high rate of student withdrawals, a student petition signed by 82 students, course evaluations scores that were by far the worst not only among members of the Chemistry Department but among all the University's undergraduate science courses, and multiple student complaints about his dismissiveness, unresponsiveness, condescension, and opacity about grading." > Beckman continued: So, what exactly would be the argument for renewal of this appointment? NYU has lots of hard courses and lots of tough graders among the faculty - they don't end up with outcomes like this. Surely, among the many things a university should stand up for - including academic freedom, academic rigor, and a robust research enterprise - one of them should be good teaching. Good teaching shouldn't be pitted against rigor as an excuse for poor teaching; good teaching and rigor are perfectly compatible, and the latter is not a threat to the former at NYU.
- rahimnathwani 4y ago
  "NYU had in Professor Maitland Jones a faculty member with a one-year appointment specifically to teach organic chemistry," wrote John Beckman The statement is factually correct but misleading. He's been at NYU since 2007. Given he's on a one year appointment, I guess he's been re-hired 14 times.
  - mcguire 4y ago
    That seems to be the case, yes.
- glofish 4y ago
  When a professor gets the worst course evaluation scores among all courses at a university - just about always it means that there is a problem with the lecturer.
  - generationP 4y ago

Tomte 4y ago

You're heavily speculating about a person, just to write - essentially - a fictional story you happen to like. Your comment is ageist, nothing else.

brudgers 4y ago
That's the kind of comment stories like this attract.
dekken_ 4y ago
> Your comment is ageist, nothing else. False, this is your opinion, they were careful not to state what is, but what might be the case.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  I mean it’s literally true the comment is ageist, it’s transparently and shamelessly ageist.
  - logicalmonster 4y ago
    How many news stories from ArsTechnica even mention the subject's age in the first place? Can you please let me know specifically what about my comment was ageist, and specifically shamelessly so? I think I was very reasonable and respectful and clearly indicated that my post was speculation. Thanks Faerie. PS: As an aside, to be very pedantic, the word ageist is a subjective term, not objective. You can say that 2+2=4 is literally true, but can you fairly say that anything is literally ageist when that's subjective? Just something to noodle over about what that word even means.
    - faeriechangling 4y ago
      Ageisms definition if we search “define ageism” is prejudice or discrimination based on age. Saying a 5 year old would be a bad theoretical physicist or that a 90 year old would make a bad NFL linebacker both would constitute prejudices based on age by the strictest definition. Your respectfulness or lack thereof is almost totally irrelevant to if your post is ageist. I don’t see “ageism” as a very useful word anyways since my attempt to narrow the definition makes it painfully subjective.
      - logicalmonster 4y ago
        > Saying a 5 year old would be a bad theoretical physicist or that a 90 year old would make a bad NFL linebacker both would constitute prejudices based on age the way I see it. It seems like most people would agree with your examples. Do you view this sort of ageism filter as a useful tool for understanding the world? Does the word ageism automatically imply a negative connotation then?
cm2012 4y ago
It's fine to be ageist against someone who is 84 years old. There are severe cognitive declines that almost no one avoids at that age. It is irresponsible to hire an 84 year old for any important job.
- logicalmonster 4y ago
  > It's fine to be ageist against someone who is 84 years old. There are severe cognitive declines that almost no one avoids at that age. It is irresponsible to hire an 84 year old for any important job. Would you turn down getting lectures from Donald Knuth even if he's older than dirt? Using age as one tool to understand a complicated world with incomplete information seems fair, but I think you have to judge the individual on their own merits and abilities or you can miss out.
  - xdavidliu 4y ago
    > Would you turn down getting lectures from Donald Knuth even if he's older than dirt? There's a difference between giving lunchtime lectures and teaching an entire course while assigning grades that affect the careers of young people.
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    Knuth was the first thing that popped into my head, thanks for posting this so I didn't have to.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  “almost no one” You managed to contradict yourself within the same sentence.

Y-bar 4y ago

I think these two sections speak for themselves: > "NYU had in Professor Maitland Jones a faculty member with a one-year appointment specifically to teach organic chemistry," wrote John Beckman, a spokesperson for NYU, in a statement to Reason. "In one of his organic chemistry classes in the spring 2022 there were, among other troubling indicators, a very high rate of student withdrawals, a student petition signed by 82 students, course evaluations scores that were by far the worst not only among members of the Chemistry Department but among all the University's undergraduate science courses, and multiple student complaints about his dismissiveness, unresponsiveness, condescension, and opacity about grading." > Beckman continued: So, what exactly would be the argument for renewal of this appointment? NYU has lots of hard courses and lots of tough graders among the faculty - they don't end up with outcomes like this. Surely, among the many things a university should stand up for - including academic freedom, academic rigor, and a robust research enterprise - one of them should be good teaching. Good teaching shouldn't be pitted against rigor as an excuse for poor teaching; good teaching and rigor are perfectly compatible, and the latter is not a threat to the former at NYU.

rahimnathwani 4y ago
"NYU had in Professor Maitland Jones a faculty member with a one-year appointment specifically to teach organic chemistry," wrote John Beckman The statement is factually correct but misleading. He's been at NYU since 2007. Given he's on a one year appointment, I guess he's been re-hired 14 times.
- mcguire 4y ago
  That seems to be the case, yes.
glofish 4y ago
When a professor gets the worst course evaluation scores among all courses at a university - just about always it means that there is a problem with the lecturer.
- generationP 4y ago