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> ...because one of the letters against Stallman stopped accepting signatures at three thousand people, but the "pro" Stallman letter never did. It was always

by daptaq 4y ago

> ...because one of the letters against Stallman stopped accepting signatures at three thousand people, but the "pro" Stallman letter never did. It was always a hunch, but I suspected that part of the reason they stopped is that they reached a plateau, while the open letter was continuing to rise in popularity. https://linuxreviews.org/Grass-roots_Richard_Stallman_Support-Letter_Has_Reached_3600%2B_Signers https://linuxreviews.org/Grass-roots_Richard_Stallman_Suppor... Regarding the other accusations, my understanding is that they are unfounded or intentional misrepresentations https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai... I have personally communicated with RMS, even privately, and see a discrepancy between the way he is portrayed and the way he behaves on a regular basis. Of course, I might have just caught his good and kind side, who knows? Either way, my impression remains that those who see him as bad want to see him as bad.

hutzlibu 4y ago
- daptaq 4y ago
  I am male, and I do get what you mean, which is why I wrote "Of course, I might have just caught his good and kind side, who knows?". As a person living in Germany, with a non-German accent, I also understand that not everyone perceives everything. Any person who feels excluded from participating in the Free Software movement is a loss. The more people with more perspectives, the stronger the movement is, which is in everyone's interest. That being said: I do agree that some of the statements made in the past were tasteless, and I am disappointed that he did so. Yet when reading his own texts like https://stallman.org/articles/necessary-changes.html https://stallman.org/articles/necessary-changes.html, I have to either conclude that he agrees but has made mistakes or is himself lying. Another thing might be that I have only had contact with him via Email. Perhaps he is different in person, that I cannot say.
  - sgc 4y ago
    I often remind people that you are only ever duped by those you trust. I have no idea how you could think email exchanges with someone would lend credence one way or another in respect to this type of accusation. It is well-known that even serial murderers are often charming and everyone is surprised when they are caught. How kind, cordial, or charming someone is means nothing in this type of situation.
    - daptaq 4y ago
      OK, but just because a serial murdered can be charming, doesn't mean that every charming person in a serial murderer. It is true, I can't deduce anything with certainty from my personal and public correspondence, or the messages I see him send to others. But as opposed to the serial murderer, the issue here is the way he communicates and behaves. I guess you could try this out empirically, by creating a throwaway Email address and sending him a dry, technical question under a female name, and see how he responds.
      - sgc 4y ago
        That would be anecdotal, and after the fact when he is trying to be on his best behavior. Also, email and online communication in general is not a good way to judge somebody. for better and worse, People read non-existent tone into things I write endlessly, and you have to just stop caring about the disconnect it is so bad. To be clear, I have no idea as to the truth of this situation, I am just saying the criteria to judge it must be different than that, especially because creeps do their best to hide their creepiness to the general world.
  - DocTomoe 4y ago
    > Any person who feels excluded from participating in the Free Software movement is a loss. Yes, but not every loss is equal, and in a changing world, growing groups will eventually reach a point where not everyone who wants to play will agree on the same ethics, which will lead to someone feeling unappreciated. If I had the choice between losing a F/L/OSS contributor who has spend their life writing highly influential software and a F/L/OSS contributor who opened a 200-line-Python script once, half a year ago, I know who I would consider less of a loss.
- raxxorraxor 4y ago
  > I happen to be white, too Nobody would have guessed, also that you are male too. I really do believe that you have a problem with racism and sexism, but it won't be solved by accusing others. > So as far as I know [...] quite some apparently have You should not regurgitate these rumors without further evidence. I can imagine someone like Stallmann being awkward with women and maybe some of the accusations are true. That is certainly no reason to prosecute him like this. Not your job to do so, work on yourself instead. There is enough to do here and then you can lead by example. > There is a reason, why the free software movement is largely dominated by men Certainly not a fault of Stallman. Some women also do not like men trying to make their mark everywhere and these easy accusations of sexism or discrimination feel a bit like that. Pretty sure you won't find the "fault" for that in others.
teddyh 4y ago
> Regarding the other accusations, my understanding is that they are unfounded or intentional misrepresentations > https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai... Yes; also here: https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/ https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/

by daptaq 4y ago

hutzlibu 4y ago

daptaq 4y ago
I am male, and I do get what you mean, which is why I wrote "Of course, I might have just caught his good and kind side, who knows?". As a person living in Germany, with a non-German accent, I also understand that not everyone perceives everything. Any person who feels excluded from participating in the Free Software movement is a loss. The more people with more perspectives, the stronger the movement is, which is in everyone's interest. That being said: I do agree that some of the statements made in the past were tasteless, and I am disappointed that he did so. Yet when reading his own texts like https://stallman.org/articles/necessary-changes.html https://stallman.org/articles/necessary-changes.html, I have to either conclude that he agrees but has made mistakes or is himself lying. Another thing might be that I have only had contact with him via Email. Perhaps he is different in person, that I cannot say.
- sgc 4y ago
  I often remind people that you are only ever duped by those you trust. I have no idea how you could think email exchanges with someone would lend credence one way or another in respect to this type of accusation. It is well-known that even serial murderers are often charming and everyone is surprised when they are caught. How kind, cordial, or charming someone is means nothing in this type of situation.
  - daptaq 4y ago
    OK, but just because a serial murdered can be charming, doesn't mean that every charming person in a serial murderer. It is true, I can't deduce anything with certainty from my personal and public correspondence, or the messages I see him send to others. But as opposed to the serial murderer, the issue here is the way he communicates and behaves. I guess you could try this out empirically, by creating a throwaway Email address and sending him a dry, technical question under a female name, and see how he responds.
    - sgc 4y ago
      That would be anecdotal, and after the fact when he is trying to be on his best behavior. Also, email and online communication in general is not a good way to judge somebody. for better and worse, People read non-existent tone into things I write endlessly, and you have to just stop caring about the disconnect it is so bad. To be clear, I have no idea as to the truth of this situation, I am just saying the criteria to judge it must be different than that, especially because creeps do their best to hide their creepiness to the general world.
- DocTomoe 4y ago
  > Any person who feels excluded from participating in the Free Software movement is a loss. Yes, but not every loss is equal, and in a changing world, growing groups will eventually reach a point where not everyone who wants to play will agree on the same ethics, which will lead to someone feeling unappreciated. If I had the choice between losing a F/L/OSS contributor who has spend their life writing highly influential software and a F/L/OSS contributor who opened a 200-line-Python script once, half a year ago, I know who I would consider less of a loss.
raxxorraxor 4y ago
> I happen to be white, too Nobody would have guessed, also that you are male too. I really do believe that you have a problem with racism and sexism, but it won't be solved by accusing others. > So as far as I know [...] quite some apparently have You should not regurgitate these rumors without further evidence. I can imagine someone like Stallmann being awkward with women and maybe some of the accusations are true. That is certainly no reason to prosecute him like this. Not your job to do so, work on yourself instead. There is enough to do here and then you can lead by example. > There is a reason, why the free software movement is largely dominated by men Certainly not a fault of Stallman. Some women also do not like men trying to make their mark everywhere and these easy accusations of sexism or discrimination feel a bit like that. Pretty sure you won't find the "fault" for that in others.

teddyh 4y ago

> Regarding the other accusations, my understanding is that they are unfounded or intentional misrepresentations > https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai... Yes; also here: https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/ https://sterling-archermedes.github.io/