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I don't think allowing "binary blobs" by default is a good idea. Allowing binaries built from "non-free" but publicly available source code is less of a problem

by jgaa 4y ago

I don't think allowing "binary blobs" by default is a good idea. Allowing binaries built from "non-free" but publicly available source code is less of a problem, at least to me.

pabs3 4y ago
Most firmware is either a binary blob without source, or has public freely licensed source code. There is nothing with "non-free" but publicly available source code. The Intel Sound Open Firmware is a weird mix though, public freely licensed source code but most of the hardware can only run Intel signed firmware binaries. https://github.com/thesofproject/sof/issues/5814 https://github.com/thesofproject/sof/issues/5814
- jeff_carr 4y ago
  Some hardware firmware is a binary blob because THERE IS NO KNOWN WAY TO COMPILE IT. Certain chips are manufactured with an initialization code sequence that is generated very similarly to how an FPGA floor planning works. It should be made clear this Debian Vote is to include Proprietary Firmware in the installer so it is possible for new users to install and try Linux. If it's not in the installer, new users just perceive that free software / Linux just doesn't work at all. That doesn't help anyone.
  - devit 4y ago
    The source code to the tooling that generates the initialization code sequence along with all the input and configuration files and anything else needed to run it constitutes the source code of such a binary blob.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    > That doesn't help anyone. True enough, but Debian is trying to have a property - "this software is free!". If non-free stuff is included, it will no longer have that property. I'm not going to second guess the Debian project, they are being reasonable. But guarantees that the software is free are important. New users are all very well, but the experienced users who make up the bulk of Debian's audience don't want to be drilling down into a bug and winding up running in to proprietary code. The software is the way it is because it believes in freedom. Its successes are because it is free. If the point is to be cheap, go pirate windows or something.
  - layer8 4y ago
    > THERE IS NO KNOWN WAY TO COMPILE IT. Easy, run it through a disassembler, now you can compile it. ;)
    - Doxin 4y ago
      Not all firmware is program code.
      - layer8 4y ago
        Data sections are a thing in assembly code.

by jgaa 4y ago

I don't think allowing "binary blobs" by default is a good idea. Allowing binaries built from "non-free" but publicly available source code is less of a problem, at least to me.

pabs3 4y ago

Most firmware is either a binary blob without source, or has public freely licensed source code. There is nothing with "non-free" but publicly available source code. The Intel Sound Open Firmware is a weird mix though, public freely licensed source code but most of the hardware can only run Intel signed firmware binaries. https://github.com/thesofproject/sof/issues/5814 https://github.com/thesofproject/sof/issues/5814

jeff_carr 4y ago
Some hardware firmware is a binary blob because THERE IS NO KNOWN WAY TO COMPILE IT. Certain chips are manufactured with an initialization code sequence that is generated very similarly to how an FPGA floor planning works. It should be made clear this Debian Vote is to include Proprietary Firmware in the installer so it is possible for new users to install and try Linux. If it's not in the installer, new users just perceive that free software / Linux just doesn't work at all. That doesn't help anyone.
- devit 4y ago
  The source code to the tooling that generates the initialization code sequence along with all the input and configuration files and anything else needed to run it constitutes the source code of such a binary blob.
- roenxi 4y ago
  > That doesn't help anyone. True enough, but Debian is trying to have a property - "this software is free!". If non-free stuff is included, it will no longer have that property. I'm not going to second guess the Debian project, they are being reasonable. But guarantees that the software is free are important. New users are all very well, but the experienced users who make up the bulk of Debian's audience don't want to be drilling down into a bug and winding up running in to proprietary code. The software is the way it is because it believes in freedom. Its successes are because it is free. If the point is to be cheap, go pirate windows or something.
- layer8 4y ago
  > THERE IS NO KNOWN WAY TO COMPILE IT. Easy, run it through a disassembler, now you can compile it. ;)
  - Doxin 4y ago
    Not all firmware is program code.
    - layer8 4y ago
      Data sections are a thing in assembly code.