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They literally went on a hiring binge from 2020-2021, so... in my opinion, yes. Sure there's bleak outlook, but you have no idea how many people I know from dif

by fny 4y ago

They literally went on a hiring binge from 2020-2021, so... in my opinion, yes. Sure there's bleak outlook, but you have no idea how many people I know from different companies who jumped ship from some 2nd-3rd tier co to work for the big five or Zoom-like start up during COVID. Mind you, there was binge hiring even outside of the big five. Many high profile startups increased their workforces by 10-20% in less than a year... and my God you have no idea how many dumbass crypto initiatives launched at the same time.

ZephyrBlu 4y ago
Exactly. A lot of people got a free lunch in the past couple of years because FAANG hiring (And the rest of the tech sector) went absolutely bonkers.
- spaceman_2020 4y ago
  Salaries here in India shot up 100-200%. 35 year old engineers were making more money than leading heart surgeons with 35 years of work experience. All the while their companies remained unprofitable. Utter insanity. Especially in hindsight when we know that there is no “new normal” - just the old normal with a few online-only remnants.
  - saagarjha 4y ago
    Sounds like they shot up to better match global market salaries?
  - kamaal 4y ago
    >>35 year old engineers were making more money than leading heart surgeons with 35 years of work experience. Indian here and can confirm. This sort of situation is why so many people in comparable professions(like medicine) resent software people in India. Having said this I do believe software people deserve to make more than doctors. Medicine especially after a while can be about trivia scholars. Software on the other does demand training on bleeding edge tech almost every few months. We also tend to put lot of smart work[mathematically inclined work] than doctors.
    - bluedino 4y ago
      So that's why so many Indians move to the US to work as doctors.
      - kamaal 4y ago
        After moving to US they still resent software people. It's not just money. They tend to imagine themselves as more intellectually capable people[due to their degree requiring long and expensive academic training] compared to engineers in general. Which isn't true. And it's not just about software. They look at something like a big dam, skyscraper, a F1 car, a fighter jet, or something like Google and kind of feel insecure that there are bigger things which they could have been a part of, and feel they kind of (bad)-lucked into studying medicine[which happens to be a expensive academic course to finish, and also take more time]. I once showed a relative who is also a doctor using logic programming to solve puzzles like Sudoku etc. He kind of expressed disappointment he was stuck in a profession that doesn't allow this sort of everyday involvement in solving problems, or building things. The money part just adds to their resentment.
        spaceman_2020 4y ago
        I reckon a part of this is the relatively relaxed learning curve to coding (not software engineering). As someone who taught himself how to code last year, I can tell you that it wasn’t particularly challenging to put together a product that the average lay person would call “software/app”. So much of the work has been abstracted away by actual engineers. I can imagine how someone who doesn’t understand the complexity involved in scaling software or managing millions of users would think of coding as “easy money”. Its certainly much easier to make money quickly - you can go from a complete newbie to a fairly well paid frontend dev in under 2 years. A doctor needs a decade of effort to make anything similar.
        kamaal 4y ago
        If the deal is making money there are better ways than even coding, you better off working a job in Gulf, or learning something like stock trading well. Coding just happens to be placeholder for a range of jobs that pay well currently. >>A doctor needs a decade of effort to make anything similar. MBBS is just a basic diploma. In the first 50% academic time of MBBS they just teach you how a healthy body works, because often the biggest confusion in treating a patient is to know what's is normal and what is a disease. This is followed by a assorted set of courses which touch upon basic disease-cure scenarios. And some small introduction to chemicals and their side effects on biology. These people basically spend something like 7 years just to get here. MD is a different deal in India. Because the academics aren't really all that great and its just a detailed introduction into some organ speciality for just 2 years. Most people even here just go by established clinical practices in hospitals(a.k.a cya work) In all the actual training is just 3 years. Its not an engineers fault that their profession is just trivia, and if-else scenarios for the most most part. This is where the resentment part comes in. Most engineers, or atleast the serious ones which make good salaries have gone too far both intellectually and in productivity in those 10 years. The vast majority of doctors in India work in their own private clinics earning little money, treating small time fevers and stomach aches because that is the maximum you can do with that kind of training. You will be shocked just how far behind they are generally in the knowledge. Most will struggle to give you basic fitness and nutrition advice.
mupuff1234 4y ago
Sure, but that still doesn't change the fact that this is a big deal.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
The funny part is that most of the dumbass crypto initiatives are largely in profit (mostly by dumping their tokens on retail investors) while the hyped unicorn startups can’t make a dime in profit.

by fny 4y ago

ZephyrBlu 4y ago

Exactly. A lot of people got a free lunch in the past couple of years because FAANG hiring (And the rest of the tech sector) went absolutely bonkers.

spaceman_2020 4y ago
Salaries here in India shot up 100-200%. 35 year old engineers were making more money than leading heart surgeons with 35 years of work experience. All the while their companies remained unprofitable. Utter insanity. Especially in hindsight when we know that there is no “new normal” - just the old normal with a few online-only remnants.
- saagarjha 4y ago
  Sounds like they shot up to better match global market salaries?
- kamaal 4y ago
  >>35 year old engineers were making more money than leading heart surgeons with 35 years of work experience. Indian here and can confirm. This sort of situation is why so many people in comparable professions(like medicine) resent software people in India. Having said this I do believe software people deserve to make more than doctors. Medicine especially after a while can be about trivia scholars. Software on the other does demand training on bleeding edge tech almost every few months. We also tend to put lot of smart work[mathematically inclined work] than doctors.
  - bluedino 4y ago
    So that's why so many Indians move to the US to work as doctors.
    - kamaal 4y ago
      After moving to US they still resent software people. It's not just money. They tend to imagine themselves as more intellectually capable people[due to their degree requiring long and expensive academic training] compared to engineers in general. Which isn't true. And it's not just about software. They look at something like a big dam, skyscraper, a F1 car, a fighter jet, or something like Google and kind of feel insecure that there are bigger things which they could have been a part of, and feel they kind of (bad)-lucked into studying medicine[which happens to be a expensive academic course to finish, and also take more time]. I once showed a relative who is also a doctor using logic programming to solve puzzles like Sudoku etc. He kind of expressed disappointment he was stuck in a profession that doesn't allow this sort of everyday involvement in solving problems, or building things. The money part just adds to their resentment.
      - spaceman_2020 4y ago
        I reckon a part of this is the relatively relaxed learning curve to coding (not software engineering). As someone who taught himself how to code last year, I can tell you that it wasn’t particularly challenging to put together a product that the average lay person would call “software/app”. So much of the work has been abstracted away by actual engineers. I can imagine how someone who doesn’t understand the complexity involved in scaling software or managing millions of users would think of coding as “easy money”. Its certainly much easier to make money quickly - you can go from a complete newbie to a fairly well paid frontend dev in under 2 years. A doctor needs a decade of effort to make anything similar.
        kamaal 4y ago
        If the deal is making money there are better ways than even coding, you better off working a job in Gulf, or learning something like stock trading well. Coding just happens to be placeholder for a range of jobs that pay well currently. >>A doctor needs a decade of effort to make anything similar. MBBS is just a basic diploma. In the first 50% academic time of MBBS they just teach you how a healthy body works, because often the biggest confusion in treating a patient is to know what's is normal and what is a disease. This is followed by a assorted set of courses which touch upon basic disease-cure scenarios. And some small introduction to chemicals and their side effects on biology. These people basically spend something like 7 years just to get here. MD is a different deal in India. Because the academics aren't really all that great and its just a detailed introduction into some organ speciality for just 2 years. Most people even here just go by established clinical practices in hospitals(a.k.a cya work) In all the actual training is just 3 years. Its not an engineers fault that their profession is just trivia, and if-else scenarios for the most most part. This is where the resentment part comes in. Most engineers, or atleast the serious ones which make good salaries have gone too far both intellectually and in productivity in those 10 years. The vast majority of doctors in India work in their own private clinics earning little money, treating small time fevers and stomach aches because that is the maximum you can do with that kind of training. You will be shocked just how far behind they are generally in the knowledge. Most will struggle to give you basic fitness and nutrition advice.

mupuff1234 4y ago

Sure, but that still doesn't change the fact that this is a big deal.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

The funny part is that most of the dumbass crypto initiatives are largely in profit (mostly by dumping their tokens on retail investors) while the hyped unicorn startups can’t make a dime in profit.