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I am actually very interested in evidence of election fraud. The "there's no fraud" claims sound like hand waving. Of course there's fraud, but to what extent,

I am actually very interested in evidence of election fraud. The "there's no fraud" claims sound like hand waving. Of course there's fraud, but to what extent, and how do we know that extent?

chasil 4y ago
Here is some hard evidence of how elections are defrauded in the United States. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/add-these-voter-fraud-cases-the-growing-list https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/add-t... This is a conservative-leaning site. I would be curious if a liberal site had opposing evidence.
- kube-system 4y ago
  These are in the news all the time. They’re almost all crazy idiots who show up to the polls and pretend to be their dead relative. Add them all up and they don’t amount to a difference in anything anyway.
  - chasil 4y ago
    All of these little differences are exploited to become a tsunami. Trump went to bed on election night assured that he had won. I was no supporter of Trump, but I regret his passing in what has come. We need accurate and transparent elections, full stop. 'The U.S. Supreme Court said in 2008 in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, “flagrant examples of such fraud … have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists … [that] demonstrate that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election.”'
    - kube-system 4y ago
      > Trump went to bed on election night assured that he had won. This was painfully predictable. More conservative demographics preferred voting in person. Their votes were counted first, electronically. Paper mail in ballots were counted afterwards in many places. I agree that we need accurate elections, but even if the link above only represents 1% of actual fraud, that still doesn’t amount to enough to change any elections.
      - water8 4y ago
        Mail voting is not secure and you’re not being honest if you say it is. you’re also not being honest, if you conflate absentee with mail voting, where the stark difference is that one is requested in the other one is disseminated en mass. Also states like California require a new voter ID to confirm who you are so yeah, you can vote as your relative who has dementia and doesn’t show up. people act like cheating in elections pretty hard it’s actually pretty simple. It just requires organization do it at a large scale.
        kube-system 4y ago
        > you’re also not being honest, if you conflate absentee with mail voting, where the stark difference is that one is requested in the other one is disseminated en mass. Nothing about mail in voting is inherently unsolicited. I requested my mail in ballot.
      - anonymouse008 4y ago
        Painfully predictable only when considering mail in ballots as completely normal - mail in ballots at that volume never occurred, ever. That’s a fact. Knowing the person charged and how they went about their “business” — that one idiot could move 5-10k ballots in one populated county. that’s just one idiot, no extra team members, no support, simple small state
        kube-system 4y ago
        Right, when mail in ballots required an excuse to obtain, they had lower volume. When they were made available to everyone, in the middle of a pandemic, volume was greater. Go figure, people prefer voting from their couch on a Saturday as compared to voting in person on a Tuesday.

I am actually very interested in evidence of election fraud. The "there's no fraud" claims sound like hand waving. Of course there's fraud, but to what extent, and how do we know that extent?

chasil 4y ago

Here is some hard evidence of how elections are defrauded in the United States. https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/add-these-voter-fraud-cases-the-growing-list https://www.heritage.org/election-integrity/commentary/add-t... This is a conservative-leaning site. I would be curious if a liberal site had opposing evidence.

kube-system 4y ago
These are in the news all the time. They’re almost all crazy idiots who show up to the polls and pretend to be their dead relative. Add them all up and they don’t amount to a difference in anything anyway.
- chasil 4y ago
  All of these little differences are exploited to become a tsunami. Trump went to bed on election night assured that he had won. I was no supporter of Trump, but I regret his passing in what has come. We need accurate and transparent elections, full stop. 'The U.S. Supreme Court said in 2008 in Crawford v. Marion County Election Board, “flagrant examples of such fraud … have been documented throughout this Nation's history by respected historians and journalists … [that] demonstrate that not only is the risk of voter fraud real but that it could affect the outcome of a close election.”'
  - kube-system 4y ago
    > Trump went to bed on election night assured that he had won. This was painfully predictable. More conservative demographics preferred voting in person. Their votes were counted first, electronically. Paper mail in ballots were counted afterwards in many places. I agree that we need accurate elections, but even if the link above only represents 1% of actual fraud, that still doesn’t amount to enough to change any elections.
    - water8 4y ago
      Mail voting is not secure and you’re not being honest if you say it is. you’re also not being honest, if you conflate absentee with mail voting, where the stark difference is that one is requested in the other one is disseminated en mass. Also states like California require a new voter ID to confirm who you are so yeah, you can vote as your relative who has dementia and doesn’t show up. people act like cheating in elections pretty hard it’s actually pretty simple. It just requires organization do it at a large scale.
      - kube-system 4y ago
        > you’re also not being honest, if you conflate absentee with mail voting, where the stark difference is that one is requested in the other one is disseminated en mass. Nothing about mail in voting is inherently unsolicited. I requested my mail in ballot.
    - anonymouse008 4y ago
      Painfully predictable only when considering mail in ballots as completely normal - mail in ballots at that volume never occurred, ever. That’s a fact. Knowing the person charged and how they went about their “business” — that one idiot could move 5-10k ballots in one populated county. that’s just one idiot, no extra team members, no support, simple small state
      - kube-system 4y ago
        Right, when mail in ballots required an excuse to obtain, they had lower volume. When they were made available to everyone, in the middle of a pandemic, volume was greater. Go figure, people prefer voting from their couch on a Saturday as compared to voting in person on a Tuesday.