5 ms·

Sure... let's trust bureaucracy that consistently outsources election security to third parties who then claim that the process is proprietary. Might as well ou

Sure... let's trust bureaucracy that consistently outsources election security to third parties who then claim that the process is proprietary. Might as well outsource the Federal Reserve and SEC to Chase and Wells Fargo while we're at it and believe everything they do is fair and balanced.

chasil 4y ago
Outsourcing to a proprietary voting system could work, if a paper trail is produced that is verified by the voter. Still, open source is everywhere. Why don't we have open, unbreakable voting? Really, what is wrong with us? This is not a hard problem.
- NegativeLatency 4y ago
  What’s wrong with us: Pork barrel politics, corruption, money being considered speech, etc. This is why campaign finance reform is probably my top issue as a voter. It’s just disappointing to have the two main political parties dominate to such an extent that it feels like there’s no reasonable choices WRT voting.
  - chasil 4y ago
    What's wrong with our elections is a different thing than what's wrong with our politics. Related, but distinct.
    - water8 4y ago
      It all comes down to people believeing the ends, justify the means, instead of the means being the seed the ends grow from
- water8 4y ago
  Open source does not mean unbreakable
dijonman2 4y ago
Why don’t we require voters to show ID? It seems the system is flawed from the very beginning, there is little oversight and too much trust in local “officials”.
- chasil 4y ago
  There are citizens in the United States that do not participate in our culture to the extent that they do not have IDs. One might think of Amish communities, but many are averse to regulation. They are citizens, and they should vote if they wish. We should find some method in the technology to continue their participation.
  - tohnjitor 4y ago
    The Amish seem unlikely to participate in elections at all.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      I don’t know enough about the Amish to know either way, but I do think that someone’s rights shouldn’t be predicated on their historical participation.
      - water8 4y ago
        If they don’t care enough to get an ID then might as well flip a coin because they don’t know what they’re talking about or voting on
        kube-system 4y ago
        People who have different cultural practices than yourself are not necessarily dumb. Nor do we take away people's rights even if they are dumb.
  - dijonman2 4y ago
    Does Canada have this problem? They require voters to have ID.
ohthehugemanate 4y ago
While I agree with your point, YSK that your examples don't support it. Congress does outsource the Fed to the big banks, including Chase and Wells. [1] That's how the US Federal Reserve system works. Congress (through its appointed board of governors) sets goals, and the regional privately incorporated Federal Reserve Banks act towards those goals at their own discretion. The Regional Feds pay taxes, own property, etc just like any other private corporation. Principal shareholders are the biggest banks, including Chase, Wells, Goldman, Bank of America, etc. Apart from the power of the position, the banks profit by the mechanism of "printing money" in the US: Congress creates new bonds and treasury notes and gives them to the Feds, whose shareholders earn interest and fees on those bonds/T-bills. You would not be the first to worry that this is the fox guarding the hen house. The SEC however, is a government organization... which outsources the bulk of its regulatory responsibilities to a private association of stock exchanges and broker-dealer banks (including Chase and Wells) called FINRA. [2] The principle of "self-regulation" has been a cornerstone of the SEC since its founding. Here, too, there is considerable debate about whether self-regulation is a good idea in the age of private exchanges, dark pools, rapidly-multiplying derivatives, etc. I don't know what this does to your impression of the Fed or the SEC being fair and balanced. But you should definitely think about it every time you see discussion of the unequal impact of monetary policy, or a million dollar fine for an SEC violation worth billions. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm [2] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/how-does-finra-differ-sec/ https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/how-does-finra-diff...

chasil 4y ago

Outsourcing to a proprietary voting system could work, if a paper trail is produced that is verified by the voter. Still, open source is everywhere. Why don't we have open, unbreakable voting? Really, what is wrong with us? This is not a hard problem.

NegativeLatency 4y ago
What’s wrong with us: Pork barrel politics, corruption, money being considered speech, etc. This is why campaign finance reform is probably my top issue as a voter. It’s just disappointing to have the two main political parties dominate to such an extent that it feels like there’s no reasonable choices WRT voting.
- chasil 4y ago
  What's wrong with our elections is a different thing than what's wrong with our politics. Related, but distinct.
  - water8 4y ago
    It all comes down to people believeing the ends, justify the means, instead of the means being the seed the ends grow from
water8 4y ago
Open source does not mean unbreakable

dijonman2 4y ago

Why don’t we require voters to show ID? It seems the system is flawed from the very beginning, there is little oversight and too much trust in local “officials”.

chasil 4y ago
There are citizens in the United States that do not participate in our culture to the extent that they do not have IDs. One might think of Amish communities, but many are averse to regulation. They are citizens, and they should vote if they wish. We should find some method in the technology to continue their participation.
- tohnjitor 4y ago
  The Amish seem unlikely to participate in elections at all.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    I don’t know enough about the Amish to know either way, but I do think that someone’s rights shouldn’t be predicated on their historical participation.
    - water8 4y ago
      If they don’t care enough to get an ID then might as well flip a coin because they don’t know what they’re talking about or voting on
      - kube-system 4y ago
        People who have different cultural practices than yourself are not necessarily dumb. Nor do we take away people's rights even if they are dumb.
- dijonman2 4y ago
  Does Canada have this problem? They require voters to have ID.

ohthehugemanate 4y ago

While I agree with your point, YSK that your examples don't support it. Congress does outsource the Fed to the big banks, including Chase and Wells. [1] That's how the US Federal Reserve system works. Congress (through its appointed board of governors) sets goals, and the regional privately incorporated Federal Reserve Banks act towards those goals at their own discretion. The Regional Feds pay taxes, own property, etc just like any other private corporation. Principal shareholders are the biggest banks, including Chase, Wells, Goldman, Bank of America, etc. Apart from the power of the position, the banks profit by the mechanism of "printing money" in the US: Congress creates new bonds and treasury notes and gives them to the Feds, whose shareholders earn interest and fees on those bonds/T-bills. You would not be the first to worry that this is the fox guarding the hen house. The SEC however, is a government organization... which outsources the bulk of its regulatory responsibilities to a private association of stock exchanges and broker-dealer banks (including Chase and Wells) called FINRA. [2] The principle of "self-regulation" has been a cornerstone of the SEC since its founding. Here, too, there is considerable debate about whether self-regulation is a good idea in the age of private exchanges, dark pools, rapidly-multiplying derivatives, etc. I don't know what this does to your impression of the Fed or the SEC being fair and balanced. But you should definitely think about it every time you see discussion of the unequal impact of monetary policy, or a million dollar fine for an SEC violation worth billions. [1] https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm https://www.federalreserve.gov/faqs/about_14986.htm [2] https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/how-does-finra-differ-sec/ https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/how-does-finra-diff...