3 ms·

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly b

I am astonished. I thought we had this conversation 30 years ago, and the consensus was affirmative action of this sort is a terrible idea. It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit, even if they are legitimately qualified. Talent capable of pushing the boundaries of science is extremely scarce in humans, and it makes no sense to make it artificially scarcer. It's funny, I almost ended there but realized: I didn't even make the point that it demeans the work itself, and the people who actually can do it. And that's tantamount to acknowledging non-minority people's rights, and that is socially very dangerous thing to do right now.

faeriechangling 4y ago
I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a job and have people talk shit about me being a diversity hire, then not have a job and people just talk shit for a different reason.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- dymk 4y ago
  If you’re a capable software engineer, you don’t need dark skin or the right genitals to get a job.
  - faeriechangling 4y ago
    If you're a capable software engineer, you won't be negatively affected by affirmative action either. We still care about the issue because it has a profound effect on mediocre software engineers of various ethnicities and with various genitals.
    - dymk 4y ago
      That’s not true one won’t be negatively affected. If somebody is being given an opportunity because of their skin color, that means another person is having an opportunity taken away or delayed. That’s just how quotas work. It’s frustrating to see, especially when somebody is discriminated against for e.g. being white, but fills “other” URM boxes that aren’t visible such as sexuality or gender identity. A well-off cis-het person with worse qualifications will be given higher priority at resume review stage than a destitute queer person just because they have the ethnicity the company is looking for.
    - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
      > If you're a capable software engineer, you won't be negatively affected by affirmative action either. Well, but maybe you will. Because if you’re not “diverse enough”, some more “diverse enough” person, maybe less qualified, will take your place.
    - canistista 4y ago
      you have to do their work for them
wyager 4y ago
> It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit It's bad for the ones who would have achieved these things on merit, but it's evidently good enough for the rest of them that (as a voting bloc) they will reliably support people who push these kinds of policies. I think it's hard to understand when you're not part of a group that interacts this way with the political system. There's no Asian Jim Clyburn.

faeriechangling 4y ago

I don’t know about you, but I’d rather have a job and have people talk shit about me being a diversity hire, then not have a job and people just talk shit for a different reason.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
dymk 4y ago
If you’re a capable software engineer, you don’t need dark skin or the right genitals to get a job.
- faeriechangling 4y ago
  If you're a capable software engineer, you won't be negatively affected by affirmative action either. We still care about the issue because it has a profound effect on mediocre software engineers of various ethnicities and with various genitals.
  - dymk 4y ago
    That’s not true one won’t be negatively affected. If somebody is being given an opportunity because of their skin color, that means another person is having an opportunity taken away or delayed. That’s just how quotas work. It’s frustrating to see, especially when somebody is discriminated against for e.g. being white, but fills “other” URM boxes that aren’t visible such as sexuality or gender identity. A well-off cis-het person with worse qualifications will be given higher priority at resume review stage than a destitute queer person just because they have the ethnicity the company is looking for.
  - rad_gruchalski 4y ago
    > If you're a capable software engineer, you won't be negatively affected by affirmative action either. Well, but maybe you will. Because if you’re not “diverse enough”, some more “diverse enough” person, maybe less qualified, will take your place.
  - canistista 4y ago
    you have to do their work for them

wyager 4y ago

> It is particularly bad for minorities, since ALL of them will be suspected of having their position/funding/etc because of their identity instead of merit It's bad for the ones who would have achieved these things on merit, but it's evidently good enough for the rest of them that (as a voting bloc) they will reliably support people who push these kinds of policies. I think it's hard to understand when you're not part of a group that interacts this way with the political system. There's no Asian Jim Clyburn.