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From my experience the shops using esoteric languages aren't recruting based on knowledge of a specific tool. They're hunting for very experienced candidates.

From my experience the shops using esoteric languages aren't recruting based on knowledge of a specific tool. They're hunting for very experienced candidates. It's assumed you'll learn the language. Knowledge of a specific language does not necessarily mean you're a good developer.

scarface74 4y ago
And why would an “experienced candidate” ever step foot in those shops when they could easily get a job using a more marketable language that probably paid just as much and would make it easier for them to get their next job?
- fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
  I personally would be hesitant to hire someone who only listed popular technologies on their resume. I’d be worried they would suggest using technologies that improve their resume rather than ones that are good for my business.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Your business is probably not a special snowflake and probably would be served by using the most popular relevant technology. It would be much easier to recruit and to find help. I personally hate the clusterfuck of the modern front end ecosystem and would avoid it like the plague. But, if I was responsible for choosing the framework to use, I would choose React any day just for recruitment reasons.
- lmm 4y ago
  Because that "marketable language" is dull and frustrating? If you want top talent then you've got to offer something they want; sure you can always pay more, but past a certain point that might not be enough, plus it gets expensive. Using better languages is one of the most effective ways to get noticed by the candidates you really want.
  - andrewstuart 4y ago
    Python, TypeScript, C#, Rust, Golang - none of these seem dull to me, though all languages have some frustration.
    - lmm 4y ago
      Having used Scala, I don't think I could go back to any of those. Maybe Rust but even then I'd be constantly chafing at the lack of HKT.
    - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
      4 years of golang always breaking in prod and constant copy pasting was both dull and extremely stressfull.
    - wiseowise 4y ago
      Only Rust and TypeScript might be considered non dull, maybe C#. Python and Golang are as dull as they go.
    - freilanzer 4y ago
      I work with Python. It's extremely dull and frustrating.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    It’s more frustrating to want to leave a job and not be able to find one quickly because your experience is in some obscure language. When I was in the Enterprise/Corp dev world until a couple of years ago, I could call a few recruiters and have 8 interviews and two or three offers within less than a month. It’s easy to pattern match when you use a popular technology.
    - lmm 4y ago
      Ehh maybe. Sure, if you use a bland corporate language then you can pick up a bland corporate job whenever you want. But what's bland corporate job B going to give you that bland corporate job A didn't?
- mattpallissard 4y ago
  Because comp is similar and it's fun. Plus I fail to see how working in a less popular language hurts future job prospects. If anything my experience with less popular languages usually leads to a fairly lively, informal discussion during interviews.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Because when you throw your resume out there and a hiring manager is looking for a “full stack developer who knows (Java || C# || Python) && Typescript” why would he choose you over someone who could hit the ground running and add immediate value?
    - Test0129 4y ago
      To be fair I have no idea about the full stack life. I, however, am also not convinced they add "immediate" value. Once you're beyond mid-level being a so-called generalist is not as useful. Most of my work at high senior, and now staff level requires actual deep knowledge of the preferred stack. I have yet to meet a reformed full stack developer in our ranks and there are tons we hire, and even more that come through the door.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        I don’t touch the front end development. But I am very much a “generalist”. - back end development in a few popular languages - about an average “data architect” for lack of a better word. I’ve led implementations on every type of database imaginable including ETL type jobs and online systems. - “DevOps” (at least if you give me an AWS account) including setting up networking infrastructure, logging, monitoring, CI/CD, etc. I’ve led plenty of pre-sales meetings, writing SOWs, pretty PowerPoint slides and architecture diagrams etc. The “generalist” is very useful when you need someone to lead projects and to understand how everything fits together. I’ve had to wear all of the above hats at startups. Now I wear those same hats at a cloud provider I’m sure you have heard of. I specifically targeted my current position because I wanted to be a generalist. I’m no special snowflake. Many of my coworkers who came up the ranks in startups and have similar experience can do the same.
- wiseowise 4y ago
  Language culture is a thing. I’d rather be surrounded by competent functional programmers than Java developers.

scarface74 4y ago

And why would an “experienced candidate” ever step foot in those shops when they could easily get a job using a more marketable language that probably paid just as much and would make it easier for them to get their next job?

fiddlerwoaroof 4y ago
I personally would be hesitant to hire someone who only listed popular technologies on their resume. I’d be worried they would suggest using technologies that improve their resume rather than ones that are good for my business.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Your business is probably not a special snowflake and probably would be served by using the most popular relevant technology. It would be much easier to recruit and to find help. I personally hate the clusterfuck of the modern front end ecosystem and would avoid it like the plague. But, if I was responsible for choosing the framework to use, I would choose React any day just for recruitment reasons.
lmm 4y ago
Because that "marketable language" is dull and frustrating? If you want top talent then you've got to offer something they want; sure you can always pay more, but past a certain point that might not be enough, plus it gets expensive. Using better languages is one of the most effective ways to get noticed by the candidates you really want.
- andrewstuart 4y ago
  Python, TypeScript, C#, Rust, Golang - none of these seem dull to me, though all languages have some frustration.
  - lmm 4y ago
    Having used Scala, I don't think I could go back to any of those. Maybe Rust but even then I'd be constantly chafing at the lack of HKT.
  - ParetoOptimal 4y ago
    4 years of golang always breaking in prod and constant copy pasting was both dull and extremely stressfull.
  - wiseowise 4y ago
    Only Rust and TypeScript might be considered non dull, maybe C#. Python and Golang are as dull as they go.
  - freilanzer 4y ago
    I work with Python. It's extremely dull and frustrating.
- scarface74 4y ago
  It’s more frustrating to want to leave a job and not be able to find one quickly because your experience is in some obscure language. When I was in the Enterprise/Corp dev world until a couple of years ago, I could call a few recruiters and have 8 interviews and two or three offers within less than a month. It’s easy to pattern match when you use a popular technology.
  - lmm 4y ago
    Ehh maybe. Sure, if you use a bland corporate language then you can pick up a bland corporate job whenever you want. But what's bland corporate job B going to give you that bland corporate job A didn't?
mattpallissard 4y ago
Because comp is similar and it's fun. Plus I fail to see how working in a less popular language hurts future job prospects. If anything my experience with less popular languages usually leads to a fairly lively, informal discussion during interviews.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Because when you throw your resume out there and a hiring manager is looking for a “full stack developer who knows (Java || C# || Python) && Typescript” why would he choose you over someone who could hit the ground running and add immediate value?
  - Test0129 4y ago
    To be fair I have no idea about the full stack life. I, however, am also not convinced they add "immediate" value. Once you're beyond mid-level being a so-called generalist is not as useful. Most of my work at high senior, and now staff level requires actual deep knowledge of the preferred stack. I have yet to meet a reformed full stack developer in our ranks and there are tons we hire, and even more that come through the door.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      I don’t touch the front end development. But I am very much a “generalist”. - back end development in a few popular languages - about an average “data architect” for lack of a better word. I’ve led implementations on every type of database imaginable including ETL type jobs and online systems. - “DevOps” (at least if you give me an AWS account) including setting up networking infrastructure, logging, monitoring, CI/CD, etc. I’ve led plenty of pre-sales meetings, writing SOWs, pretty PowerPoint slides and architecture diagrams etc. The “generalist” is very useful when you need someone to lead projects and to understand how everything fits together. I’ve had to wear all of the above hats at startups. Now I wear those same hats at a cloud provider I’m sure you have heard of. I specifically targeted my current position because I wanted to be a generalist. I’m no special snowflake. Many of my coworkers who came up the ranks in startups and have similar experience can do the same.
wiseowise 4y ago
Language culture is a thing. I’d rather be surrounded by competent functional programmers than Java developers.