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It is a highly automated process. It is also not as highly regulated as other construction projects, as the cable won't kill anybody. There are also no vested i

by est31 4y ago

It is a highly automated process. It is also not as highly regulated as other construction projects, as the cable won't kill anybody. There are also no vested interests that want internet connectivity to remain bad in Africa.

throwamon 4y ago
What about impact on marine life? Genuine question.
- enviclash 4y ago
  I only have concerns about the coastal connection point being in an environmentally sensitive area, e.g. a wetland.
  - odensc 4y ago
    Not to mention the impacts on the people who live in the communities on the coast that these cables often land at. See what has happened with Facebook's new cable in Oregon: https://oregoncoastalliance.org/facebook-proposes-undersea-cable-landing-in-tierra-del-mar/ https://oregoncoastalliance.org/facebook-proposes-undersea-c...
    - jonas21 4y ago
      Sorry, what were the impacts other than a few weeks of construction noise? The cable is buried under the beach and the seafloor until you get half a mile offshore. According to the link, they left some drilling equipment 60 feet underground, and that's a "disaster"? This site seems to be dedicated to opposing any sort of development along the Oregon coast, so I guess it's not surprising they didn't like this.
    - Fomite 4y ago
      "...and at least 6,500 gallons of drilling fluid" feels considerably more significant than the "drill bit" in another comment.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - kcb 4y ago
        That's like a small swimming pools worth of whatever it is. Feels pretty insignificant.
        Gasp0de 4y ago
        If it's mineral oil based that would be enough to destroy a few ecosystems I think
        albrewer 4y ago
        Didn't read the article but from what I understand drilling fluid for environmentally sensitive areas tends to be water with bentonite clay and a small amount of thickener like barium sulfate or calcium carbonate (i.e. seashells) in it.
        jonas21 4y ago
        The independent analysis [1] concluded that "there are currently no adverse environmental, scenic, recreational, or economic impacts resulting from the drill break or presence of Remaining Materials 50 to 70 feet below the sea floor, nor is there a reasonably conceived scenario (e.g. earthquake, tsunami, long-term coastal erosion) that would expose the Remaining Materials to the surrounding environment and result in future impacts." The drilling fluid is in a borehole ~60 feet underground, and has hardened into a solid (as it's designed to do when not under the mechanical stress of drilling). It's mostly water and clay, with a few additives, all of which are below their ecotoxicity threshold concentrations, even at full concentration in the borehole. And if the drilling fluid ever entered the ocean (which it won't), it would be diluted such that "concentrations of the drilling mud additives and their chemical constituents would be orders of magnitude below ecotoxicity threshold concentrations (and therefore non-hazardous to natural resources) and undetectable". [1] https://oregoncoastalliance.org/documents_20/edge-cable/06_FacebookHazardsAnalysis_reTDMDrillAccidentSept2020.pdf https://oregoncoastalliance.org/documents_20/edge-cable/06_F...
  - gavanm 4y ago
    I wonder if it could be a net positive for the connection point areas. I'm speculating that areas with undersea cables are often marked as "no anchor" zones due to the risk of damage (in areas where such practices are followed). So the drop in damage from anchors and extended motor boat presence might eventually outweigh the initial damage from laying the cable.
    - enviclash 4y ago
      The idea of net positive is flawed, as multiple local net positives from different disruptions (other than cables) might lead to deterioration of global quality thresholds for sensitive issues, e.g. chains of wetlands required for migratory birds. These global connections are most often unwisely accounted.
rippercushions 4y ago
Oh yes there are: telco incumbents fight furiously to protect their turf. This is why it's 2022 and it's still illegal (!) to provide video calls over the Internet in the UAE. https://www.travelizta.com/frequent-question-why-cant-i-make-video-calls-in-dubai.html https://www.travelizta.com/frequent-question-why-cant-i-make... Neal Stephenson goes into this in some detail in his 1996 classic: https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/ https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/
- devoutsalsa 4y ago
  Zoom calls do work in Dubai.
  - shafin_ 4y ago
    Video call on teams also works
  - petesergeant 4y ago
    Yes but WhatsApp and FB calling do not. As I understand it, Zoom only started working reliably during Covid as companies needed it to
    - bkishan 4y ago
      End-to-end encrypted calling is illegal in Dubai, so not surprising that WhatsApp does not work.
      - EGreg 4y ago
        This. It is more about end-to-end encryption and the government wanting to have the certs to decrypt stuff if necessary. I was in Dubai twice earlier this year, and among other people I met with Dr Marwan Alzarouni, who helped create the first certificate authority in UAE many years ago. And their group have now released an app that has all your info and you choose what verified credentials to present. https://community.intercoin.app/t/qbix-and-intercoin-around-the-world-greg-magarshaks-travelogue/2365 https://community.intercoin.app/t/qbix-and-intercoin-around-... Monaco and Dubai are “police states” if you will, with cameras everywhere and end to end encryption technically illegal. Many people (tourists, businessmen) seem to like that.

by est31 4y ago

throwamon 4y ago

What about impact on marine life? Genuine question.

enviclash 4y ago
I only have concerns about the coastal connection point being in an environmentally sensitive area, e.g. a wetland.
- odensc 4y ago
  Not to mention the impacts on the people who live in the communities on the coast that these cables often land at. See what has happened with Facebook's new cable in Oregon: https://oregoncoastalliance.org/facebook-proposes-undersea-cable-landing-in-tierra-del-mar/ https://oregoncoastalliance.org/facebook-proposes-undersea-c...
  - jonas21 4y ago
    Sorry, what were the impacts other than a few weeks of construction noise? The cable is buried under the beach and the seafloor until you get half a mile offshore. According to the link, they left some drilling equipment 60 feet underground, and that's a "disaster"? This site seems to be dedicated to opposing any sort of development along the Oregon coast, so I guess it's not surprising they didn't like this.
  - Fomite 4y ago
    "...and at least 6,500 gallons of drilling fluid" feels considerably more significant than the "drill bit" in another comment.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - kcb 4y ago
      That's like a small swimming pools worth of whatever it is. Feels pretty insignificant.
      - Gasp0de 4y ago
        If it's mineral oil based that would be enough to destroy a few ecosystems I think
        albrewer 4y ago
        Didn't read the article but from what I understand drilling fluid for environmentally sensitive areas tends to be water with bentonite clay and a small amount of thickener like barium sulfate or calcium carbonate (i.e. seashells) in it.
        jonas21 4y ago
        The independent analysis [1] concluded that "there are currently no adverse environmental, scenic, recreational, or economic impacts resulting from the drill break or presence of Remaining Materials 50 to 70 feet below the sea floor, nor is there a reasonably conceived scenario (e.g. earthquake, tsunami, long-term coastal erosion) that would expose the Remaining Materials to the surrounding environment and result in future impacts." The drilling fluid is in a borehole ~60 feet underground, and has hardened into a solid (as it's designed to do when not under the mechanical stress of drilling). It's mostly water and clay, with a few additives, all of which are below their ecotoxicity threshold concentrations, even at full concentration in the borehole. And if the drilling fluid ever entered the ocean (which it won't), it would be diluted such that "concentrations of the drilling mud additives and their chemical constituents would be orders of magnitude below ecotoxicity threshold concentrations (and therefore non-hazardous to natural resources) and undetectable". [1] https://oregoncoastalliance.org/documents_20/edge-cable/06_FacebookHazardsAnalysis_reTDMDrillAccidentSept2020.pdf https://oregoncoastalliance.org/documents_20/edge-cable/06_F...
- gavanm 4y ago
  I wonder if it could be a net positive for the connection point areas. I'm speculating that areas with undersea cables are often marked as "no anchor" zones due to the risk of damage (in areas where such practices are followed). So the drop in damage from anchors and extended motor boat presence might eventually outweigh the initial damage from laying the cable.
  - enviclash 4y ago
    The idea of net positive is flawed, as multiple local net positives from different disruptions (other than cables) might lead to deterioration of global quality thresholds for sensitive issues, e.g. chains of wetlands required for migratory birds. These global connections are most often unwisely accounted.

rippercushions 4y ago

Oh yes there are: telco incumbents fight furiously to protect their turf. This is why it's 2022 and it's still illegal (!) to provide video calls over the Internet in the UAE. https://www.travelizta.com/frequent-question-why-cant-i-make-video-calls-in-dubai.html https://www.travelizta.com/frequent-question-why-cant-i-make... Neal Stephenson goes into this in some detail in his 1996 classic: https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/ https://www.wired.com/1996/12/ffglass/

devoutsalsa 4y ago
Zoom calls do work in Dubai.
- shafin_ 4y ago
  Video call on teams also works
- petesergeant 4y ago
  Yes but WhatsApp and FB calling do not. As I understand it, Zoom only started working reliably during Covid as companies needed it to
  - bkishan 4y ago
    End-to-end encrypted calling is illegal in Dubai, so not surprising that WhatsApp does not work.
    - EGreg 4y ago
      This. It is more about end-to-end encryption and the government wanting to have the certs to decrypt stuff if necessary. I was in Dubai twice earlier this year, and among other people I met with Dr Marwan Alzarouni, who helped create the first certificate authority in UAE many years ago. And their group have now released an app that has all your info and you choose what verified credentials to present. https://community.intercoin.app/t/qbix-and-intercoin-around-the-world-greg-magarshaks-travelogue/2365 https://community.intercoin.app/t/qbix-and-intercoin-around-... Monaco and Dubai are “police states” if you will, with cameras everywhere and end to end encryption technically illegal. Many people (tourists, businessmen) seem to like that.