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You are trying to look at it from a rational person point of view with your own biases, but the other side may think entirely differently. For instance, they ma

You are trying to look at it from a rational person point of view with your own biases, but the other side may think entirely differently. For instance, they may come to a conclusion that they have enough know how to go their own way. Feed some nationalist delusions, discouragement of critical thinking growing over the years and the nation may believe this is actually achievable. Then they may think the attack on Taiwan is just the right thing to do and if "imperialist America" does not like it, they can eat their Apple themselves. Etc. If anything, such intertwining of economies may actually prevent countries willing to help the attacked side from doing anything apart from token gestures out of fear their supply chains get destroyed. After all why should they care about some island thousands miles away, whereas if they weren't in any way dependent they could have rushed to help.

xwolfi 4y ago
Well I m in China myself so unlike the person you re replying to, it's not just a bias but my entire life depending on not invading Taiwan. Nobody here or in other cities I know wants to invade Taiwan: people think it's already Chinese anyway, and it's just a political disagreement (ofc in TW they think otherwise and I agree with them to an extent: they re a country but they built all their identity on being "the true China"). Our dependency on the US, but also Japan, India, the EU and to some extent the rest of the world is bound to force us to keep a slow grind rather than blatant violence. At least outside of China. I know Russia disproved the theory: they were dependent on the EU and fuck it all up anyway but... Russia then proceeded to prove the disaster it is for the country, the people and even the war: you cant win territory easily by murdering blindly left and right your commercial partners and your cultural cousins and unlike what some may believe, even some past expansion had to be based on mutual interest to last.
- Wowfunhappy 4y ago
  > they re a country but they built all their identity on being "the true China" Huh? I think it's the CCP that did that, not Taiwan...
  - thristian 4y ago
    Before 1949, the Republic of China controlled both mainland China and the island of Taiwan. After the communist revolution, the government of the RoC retreated to Taiwan. The communists called their government the People's Republic of China. Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be.
    - dragonwriter 4y ago
      > Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be. That’s not entirely true; the coalition led by the KMT in Taiwan agrees with the PRC on the One China issue, the (currently governing) DPP led coalition does not and views Taiwan as already independent and territorially distinct from the PRC, and does not accept the One China idea.
      - ayewo 4y ago
        You are not really disagreeing with the GP. Your reply provides the context behind which parties are in disagreement in the GP’s last sentence which you quoted in your reply: “They just disagree on which government that should be.”
        dragonwriter 4y ago
        > You are not really disagreeing with the GP. Yes, I am. GP claims: Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be. This is false. The PRC believes that, and the RoC, currently, does not. In more detail, the RoC’s KMT/pan-Blue coalition agrees with the PRC that the two are one China but disagrees on which government should be in charge. But, while they governed the RoC exclusively before free elections and intermittently since, they aren’t the RoC or its currently governing faction. The DPP/pan-Green coalition, which has been dominant for several years in the RoC disagrees with the KMT and PRC and sees the PRC and RoC as two separate, geographically distinct states.
makeitdouble 4y ago
It becomes pretty hard to do business or build internation relationships when you assume that the other side will stop being rational at any point in time. Imagine it from the other side of the table: would any country rely on US companies for their OS or business tools if tomorrow the US could start a war against them ? That's a possibility that is never frown away, and any countries with enough resources will make efforts to mitigate it, but that can't be the base assumption behind the relationship.
- 9dev 4y ago
  Hah, funny you bring that issue up. When Trump was president, indeed other countries regarded the USA as having stopped being rational. I can’t even begin to tell you how bewildering it was to watch that shitshow from over the pond — let alone the storming of the capitol, and Trump not being declared an enemy of the people after. That was the lowest point in your history. There was just so much lost that day. What’s worse, when he’ll inevitably be elected again, our trust in the US as a partner will be gone completely.
  - Gud 4y ago
    Not a trump supporter, but in both Russia and China he appears to have been spot on, where everyone else has been wrong. Remember his so called ties to Russia? He even warned Germany not be reliant on them for gas, while they snickered at him.
antupis 4y ago
This exact thing happened Putin and see how it is going in the end Europe is doing ok and Russia is actually collapsing.
- NeverFade 4y ago
  If Russia will "collapse" economically (so far it hasn't, not really) it won't be just because their relations with Europe broke down, but because a united front that includes Europe, but also the US, Canada, Australia, and most of their allies has all decided to impose sanctions.
  - koonsolo 4y ago
    Russia's economy is mainly export to Europe (>50%). Asia comes second. The Americas only account for about 6%. Of course sanctions on export to Russia will also be felt, but not as much as losing the money of Europe.
    - zarzavat 4y ago
      Yes but much of Russia’s exports are commodities, which are traded on a global market. If Russia loses Europe, they can find other buyers. They may have to adjust the price, but they will still be able to sell to somebody. It’s different from China which is exporting far more finished goods. If America stops buying high end electronics from Chinese factories and starts buying from Vietnamese factories, then those exports just vanish from China’s economy. There is no backup America to buy the goods to keep the factories running.
      - philistine 4y ago
        The logic of the sanctions is that in the long term they prevent Russia from profitably exporting by denying them any imports to improve their productivity. In simpler terms, how can you just switch to a different market when the pump to make the gaz is unavailable to you.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

xwolfi 4y ago

Well I m in China myself so unlike the person you re replying to, it's not just a bias but my entire life depending on not invading Taiwan. Nobody here or in other cities I know wants to invade Taiwan: people think it's already Chinese anyway, and it's just a political disagreement (ofc in TW they think otherwise and I agree with them to an extent: they re a country but they built all their identity on being "the true China"). Our dependency on the US, but also Japan, India, the EU and to some extent the rest of the world is bound to force us to keep a slow grind rather than blatant violence. At least outside of China. I know Russia disproved the theory: they were dependent on the EU and fuck it all up anyway but... Russia then proceeded to prove the disaster it is for the country, the people and even the war: you cant win territory easily by murdering blindly left and right your commercial partners and your cultural cousins and unlike what some may believe, even some past expansion had to be based on mutual interest to last.

Wowfunhappy 4y ago
> they re a country but they built all their identity on being "the true China" Huh? I think it's the CCP that did that, not Taiwan...
- thristian 4y ago
  Before 1949, the Republic of China controlled both mainland China and the island of Taiwan. After the communist revolution, the government of the RoC retreated to Taiwan. The communists called their government the People's Republic of China. Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be. That’s not entirely true; the coalition led by the KMT in Taiwan agrees with the PRC on the One China issue, the (currently governing) DPP led coalition does not and views Taiwan as already independent and territorially distinct from the PRC, and does not accept the One China idea.
    - ayewo 4y ago
      You are not really disagreeing with the GP. Your reply provides the context behind which parties are in disagreement in the GP’s last sentence which you quoted in your reply: “They just disagree on which government that should be.”
      - dragonwriter 4y ago
        > You are not really disagreeing with the GP. Yes, I am. GP claims: Both the RoC and the PRC agree that mainland China and the island of Taiwan are "China", and they both agree that one government should be in control. They just disagree on which government that should be. This is false. The PRC believes that, and the RoC, currently, does not. In more detail, the RoC’s KMT/pan-Blue coalition agrees with the PRC that the two are one China but disagrees on which government should be in charge. But, while they governed the RoC exclusively before free elections and intermittently since, they aren’t the RoC or its currently governing faction. The DPP/pan-Green coalition, which has been dominant for several years in the RoC disagrees with the KMT and PRC and sees the PRC and RoC as two separate, geographically distinct states.

makeitdouble 4y ago

It becomes pretty hard to do business or build internation relationships when you assume that the other side will stop being rational at any point in time. Imagine it from the other side of the table: would any country rely on US companies for their OS or business tools if tomorrow the US could start a war against them ? That's a possibility that is never frown away, and any countries with enough resources will make efforts to mitigate it, but that can't be the base assumption behind the relationship.

9dev 4y ago
Hah, funny you bring that issue up. When Trump was president, indeed other countries regarded the USA as having stopped being rational. I can’t even begin to tell you how bewildering it was to watch that shitshow from over the pond — let alone the storming of the capitol, and Trump not being declared an enemy of the people after. That was the lowest point in your history. There was just so much lost that day. What’s worse, when he’ll inevitably be elected again, our trust in the US as a partner will be gone completely.
- Gud 4y ago
  Not a trump supporter, but in both Russia and China he appears to have been spot on, where everyone else has been wrong. Remember his so called ties to Russia? He even warned Germany not be reliant on them for gas, while they snickered at him.

antupis 4y ago

This exact thing happened Putin and see how it is going in the end Europe is doing ok and Russia is actually collapsing.

NeverFade 4y ago
If Russia will "collapse" economically (so far it hasn't, not really) it won't be just because their relations with Europe broke down, but because a united front that includes Europe, but also the US, Canada, Australia, and most of their allies has all decided to impose sanctions.
- koonsolo 4y ago
  Russia's economy is mainly export to Europe (>50%). Asia comes second. The Americas only account for about 6%. Of course sanctions on export to Russia will also be felt, but not as much as losing the money of Europe.
  - zarzavat 4y ago
    Yes but much of Russia’s exports are commodities, which are traded on a global market. If Russia loses Europe, they can find other buyers. They may have to adjust the price, but they will still be able to sell to somebody. It’s different from China which is exporting far more finished goods. If America stops buying high end electronics from Chinese factories and starts buying from Vietnamese factories, then those exports just vanish from China’s economy. There is no backup America to buy the goods to keep the factories running.
    - philistine 4y ago
      The logic of the sanctions is that in the long term they prevent Russia from profitably exporting by denying them any imports to improve their productivity. In simpler terms, how can you just switch to a different market when the pump to make the gaz is unavailable to you.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]