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This community is funny at times. A lot of people had their opinions on those two threads, didn't they? Kudos to the ones who questioned the origin of the phe

This community is funny at times. A lot of people had their opinions on those two threads, didn't they? Kudos to the ones who questioned the origin of the phenomenon instead of declaring immediately that the world is falling.

smoldesu 4y ago
It's equally funny to see the collective sigh-of-relief expressed through this post's upvotes. OCSP is real and can hurt you, warrantless iCloud access still goes un-mitigated, but thank God! The QR code IP leak turned out to be a fake. Who knew MacOS was a nice and private operating system all along?
- derbOac 4y ago
  So... I think replication was needed and have a MacBook myself. However, the claim in question was tricky to verify because it was supposedly occuring over the course of days. I also think it says a lot about collective anxieties over not using an open OS. The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible and there wasn't really much to do about it other than try to verify it. I think the episode says less about collective unwarranted paranoia and more about collective vulnerabilities. I still am scratching my head about the new tweet though. It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS.
  - zimpenfish 4y ago
    > The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible I didn't think it is plausible which is why I set up a whole bunch of replication scenarios to verify the extraordinary claim. > It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS. I think it's clear that the scanning isn't happening and that it was just Firefox refetching something? "I now believe the canary token was triggered [...] by Firefox’s “recent” shortcuts on the home screen"
    - natch 4y ago
      Unfortunately he doesn’t go the full distance and tell us unambiguously whether or not he clicked on said shortcut. Which would say nothing about the already settled macOS question but would say something about Firefox.
- Tijdreiziger 4y ago
  OK, now how do we solve it? I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple’s or Google’s ecosystem. There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy and enjoy modern technology.
  - merely-unlikely 4y ago
    I'd love Apple to build iCloud hosting via your home mac or a new version of the server they used to sell. That way all data sits on and is processed by a machine you control. Admittedly wishful thinking but I can dream.
    - selectodude 4y ago
      I wish I was smart enough to reverse engineer iCloud so I could self-host. This would, of course, also be a massive security flaw.
  - chaxor 4y ago
    How is using good Linux based OSes and self hosted FOSS not "enjoying modern technology". The systems are very nice honestly, because they give you much more control (e.g. windows vs Linux).
    - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
      Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. I don’t see a straightforward way to replace any of these with FOSS, and getting rid of them all would necessitate some serious concessions in my lifestyle.
      - 4y ago
aleksiy123 4y ago
It's not even at times. It's all the time. Theres many threads where the actual information is sparse but people sound extremely confident about their conclusions. Makes me realise that much of the time people are just making stuff up, there's just nobody to call them out.
- JimDabell 4y ago
  You’re not kidding. From the earlier discussion: > this is the exact same technology Apple lets China use to hunt down their religious and political minorities > one thing is for certain; Apple doesn't treat privacy as a human right. If you can live with that, then more power to you. Something tells me people won’t use this as an excuse to accuse Firefox of human rights abuses though.
  - dagmx 4y ago
    Anything Apple gets peoples hackles up. I think it’s because “favourite tech stack” is such a tribal thing, and there’s so many more Windows/Linux/Android users in tech communities
    - wutbrodo 4y ago
      I doubt it. All of bigtech gets the same deranged treatment: Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. It was a weird moment when I found myself defending fb on hn more often than I criticized them (I think they're atrocious), but the comments on bigtech stories are just that stupid.
      - dagmx 4y ago
        I agree that all big tech gets it, and to be honest anything that’s not FOSS gets shit on a ton here. But I do think Apple get it worse than other companies. Android posts don’t get as many comments that range from conspiracy to calling users sheep. Google gets ribbed for their ADHD but rarely criticized anywhere as much if Safari or Chrome both add their web proposals before standardization. Apple hardware gets trivialized when performance comes up whereas Intel, AMD and NVidia get vaunted. So I agree every big tech company gets railed on here, but I think Apple gets a disproportionate amount of it. Before someone says it, That’s not me defending them as a company, it’s me tired of the terrible discourse on every post that mentions them. There’s lots of things that would be interesting to criticize them for and read about, but every thread divulges into the same exact community talking points.

smoldesu 4y ago

It's equally funny to see the collective sigh-of-relief expressed through this post's upvotes. OCSP is real and can hurt you, warrantless iCloud access still goes un-mitigated, but thank God! The QR code IP leak turned out to be a fake. Who knew MacOS was a nice and private operating system all along?

derbOac 4y ago
So... I think replication was needed and have a MacBook myself. However, the claim in question was tricky to verify because it was supposedly occuring over the course of days. I also think it says a lot about collective anxieties over not using an open OS. The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible and there wasn't really much to do about it other than try to verify it. I think the episode says less about collective unwarranted paranoia and more about collective vulnerabilities. I still am scratching my head about the new tweet though. It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS.
- zimpenfish 4y ago
  > The scanning wasn't happening but it was plausible I didn't think it is plausible which is why I set up a whole bunch of replication scenarios to verify the extraordinary claim. > It doesn't say the scanning isn't happening, just that it's not MacOS. I think it's clear that the scanning isn't happening and that it was just Firefox refetching something? "I now believe the canary token was triggered [...] by Firefox’s “recent” shortcuts on the home screen"
  - natch 4y ago
    Unfortunately he doesn’t go the full distance and tell us unambiguously whether or not he clicked on said shortcut. Which would say nothing about the already settled macOS question but would say something about Firefox.
Tijdreiziger 4y ago
OK, now how do we solve it? I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot. It seems to me you either go full send on the privacy front -> use FLOSS operating systems and self-host Nextcloud, or you want the comforts of modern apps and services -> buy into Apple’s or Google’s ecosystem. There exists no option where you get to keep your privacy and enjoy modern technology.
- merely-unlikely 4y ago
  I'd love Apple to build iCloud hosting via your home mac or a new version of the server they used to sell. That way all data sits on and is processed by a machine you control. Admittedly wishful thinking but I can dream.
  - selectodude 4y ago
    I wish I was smart enough to reverse engineer iCloud so I could self-host. This would, of course, also be a massive security flaw.
- chaxor 4y ago
  How is using good Linux based OSes and self hosted FOSS not "enjoying modern technology". The systems are very nice honestly, because they give you much more control (e.g. windows vs Linux).
  - Tijdreiziger 4y ago
    Well, because using any popular service or app is right out? Just looking at my own phone, payments, banking, planning transit rides, ordering cabs, keeping in touch with (online and offline) friends, streaming videos and music, gaming, ordering groceries, ordering takeout, translating documents, getting breaking news, taking (good) photos, and reporting vandalism to the city are all proprietary apps. I don’t see a straightforward way to replace any of these with FOSS, and getting rid of them all would necessitate some serious concessions in my lifestyle.
    - 4y ago

aleksiy123 4y ago

It's not even at times. It's all the time. Theres many threads where the actual information is sparse but people sound extremely confident about their conclusions. Makes me realise that much of the time people are just making stuff up, there's just nobody to call them out.

JimDabell 4y ago
You’re not kidding. From the earlier discussion: > this is the exact same technology Apple lets China use to hunt down their religious and political minorities > one thing is for certain; Apple doesn't treat privacy as a human right. If you can live with that, then more power to you. Something tells me people won’t use this as an excuse to accuse Firefox of human rights abuses though.
- dagmx 4y ago
  Anything Apple gets peoples hackles up. I think it’s because “favourite tech stack” is such a tribal thing, and there’s so many more Windows/Linux/Android users in tech communities
  - wutbrodo 4y ago
    I doubt it. All of bigtech gets the same deranged treatment: Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc. It was a weird moment when I found myself defending fb on hn more often than I criticized them (I think they're atrocious), but the comments on bigtech stories are just that stupid.
    - dagmx 4y ago
      I agree that all big tech gets it, and to be honest anything that’s not FOSS gets shit on a ton here. But I do think Apple get it worse than other companies. Android posts don’t get as many comments that range from conspiracy to calling users sheep. Google gets ribbed for their ADHD but rarely criticized anywhere as much if Safari or Chrome both add their web proposals before standardization. Apple hardware gets trivialized when performance comes up whereas Intel, AMD and NVidia get vaunted. So I agree every big tech company gets railed on here, but I think Apple gets a disproportionate amount of it. Before someone says it, That’s not me defending them as a company, it’s me tired of the terrible discourse on every post that mentions them. There’s lots of things that would be interesting to criticize them for and read about, but every thread divulges into the same exact community talking points.