3 ms·

It's not, at least in my country France and probably most of Europe... I've never seen a form asking me if I'm white. Was kinda shocked to realize it's comm

by lywald 15y ago

It's not, at least in my country France and probably most of Europe... I've never seen a form asking me if I'm white. Was kinda shocked to realize it's common practice in US.

dalke 15y ago
Employment information is tracked this way in order to judge if there is a systemic imbalance in employment. We can say (in the US) that certain minorities are over- or under-represented in different fields. Hopefully that knowledge can help reduce the imbalance. Some places (voluntarily or under court order) also track the ethnicity of people involved in police incidents because across the country, ethnically discriminated minorities are more likely to be stopped, frisked, and/or cited than non-minorities. Tracking this information helps reveal the effect of that discrimination. As I understand it, France also has systemic discrimination - grand-children of guest workers from the 1960s have a hard time finding employment, for example, and the official state position is that "there are no ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities." The Human Rights Committee disagrees with that view, and I think it's a bizarre viewpoint. The French Constitution and Penal Code prohibit the collection of data based on the origin, race or religion, so of course you haven't seen such a form. On the other hand, it's widely believed that the lack of such information makes it hard to determine if there truly is wide-spread discrimination or not. The view of the French government is that there is no discrimination and so there's no need to measure it. While I say that without measurements, you don't know if it exists or not.
- lywald 15y ago
  These are all fine points I agree with. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more racism here. It sounded like I was indignant but I'm really just shocked you manage to break the taboo. But you still have to be careful with these college things... It should be controlled a little.
  - dalke 15y ago
    What taboo?
    - lywald 15y ago
      Putting people into "race" categories. In France we don't even acknowledge the existence of races. It's not even about discriminating. You're not allowed to say white people and black people are different races, that's labeled as racism. We talk about ethnicity or origin. And even then you have to be very careful. You don't say "arabs", you say "people originating from Maghreb" (or Middle east..). It's a sensitive matter. And there would be nation-wide riots if forms started asking about race or even skin color. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_b... "In many countries, such as France, the state is legally banned from maintaining data based on race, which often makes the police issue wanted notices to the public that include labels like "dark skin complexion", etc." "The decennial censuses conducted since 1790 in the United States created an incentive to establish racial categories and fit people into those categories."

by lywald 15y ago

It's not, at least in my country France and probably most of Europe... I've never seen a form asking me if I'm white. Was kinda shocked to realize it's common practice in US.

dalke 15y ago

Employment information is tracked this way in order to judge if there is a systemic imbalance in employment. We can say (in the US) that certain minorities are over- or under-represented in different fields. Hopefully that knowledge can help reduce the imbalance. Some places (voluntarily or under court order) also track the ethnicity of people involved in police incidents because across the country, ethnically discriminated minorities are more likely to be stopped, frisked, and/or cited than non-minorities. Tracking this information helps reveal the effect of that discrimination. As I understand it, France also has systemic discrimination - grand-children of guest workers from the 1960s have a hard time finding employment, for example, and the official state position is that "there are no ethnic, religious or linguistic minorities." The Human Rights Committee disagrees with that view, and I think it's a bizarre viewpoint. The French Constitution and Penal Code prohibit the collection of data based on the origin, race or religion, so of course you haven't seen such a form. On the other hand, it's widely believed that the lack of such information makes it hard to determine if there truly is wide-spread discrimination or not. The view of the French government is that there is no discrimination and so there's no need to measure it. While I say that without measurements, you don't know if it exists or not.

lywald 15y ago
These are all fine points I agree with. It wouldn't surprise me if there were more racism here. It sounded like I was indignant but I'm really just shocked you manage to break the taboo. But you still have to be careful with these college things... It should be controlled a little.
- dalke 15y ago
  What taboo?
  - lywald 15y ago
    Putting people into "race" categories. In France we don't even acknowledge the existence of races. It's not even about discriminating. You're not allowed to say white people and black people are different races, that's labeled as racism. We talk about ethnicity or origin. And even then you have to be very careful. You don't say "arabs", you say "people originating from Maghreb" (or Middle east..). It's a sensitive matter. And there would be nation-wide riots if forms started asking about race or even skin color. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_beings) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(classification_of_human_b... "In many countries, such as France, the state is legally banned from maintaining data based on race, which often makes the police issue wanted notices to the public that include labels like "dark skin complexion", etc." "The decennial censuses conducted since 1790 in the United States created an incentive to establish racial categories and fit people into those categories."