4 ms·

That penalty seems a bit excessive

by naillo 4y ago

MichaelCollins 4y ago
- jjulius 4y ago
  >They should be charged with espionage and executed like the Rosenbergs. Ah, cool, jumping to conclusions and wishing death upon people instead of waiting to see how this plays out. Don't confuse this with me saying that espionage isn't possible here, I'm just saying - cool your jets and breathe before pulling any triggers. Yikes.
  - MichaelCollins 4y ago
    > Ah, cool, jumping to conclusions I never suggested denying them a trial. I want them tried and executed for espionage. Preferably in a public and awful manner.
    - jjulius 4y ago
      >I never suggested denying them a trial. This is the first time I've seen you suggest it, every other post was essentially, "Kill them". Even the post I'm replying to suggests that your mind is made up and you want them dead or - at the very least - miserable as all hell, whatever the reality of the details of the case may be.
    - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
      Don't suppose you'd be willing to execute them only if they are found guilty at the trial? At best, you seem to be certain of their guilt. At worst, you seem to be advocating for the kind of trial that will definitely return a guilty verdict. Either way, cool your jets. You're way too quick to condemn on incomplete information.
    - buttercraft 4y ago
      Bullshit. If you've already decided that they're guilty and have already decided their fate, you don't really want them to have a trial. Not a fair one at least.
  - adamrezich 4y ago
    is Democracy and the integrity thereof not the single most sacred and important thing everyone cares about with regards to government in the West? that's what everyone says all the time, "we're not a constitutional republic, or if we are I don't really like care or whatever—what matters is, we're a Democracy, Democracy is what matters, Democracy is all that matters." well okay then, if it's so damn important, what the hell is this complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it? you can't have it both ways, if you don't ruthlessly defend the institutions that are supposed to be the cornerstone of contemporary Western society, what do you expect will happen? foreign powers are all too happy to ruthlessly exploit what we delude ourselves into believing isn't worth defending.
    - jjulius 4y ago
      >well okay then, if it's so damn important, what the hell is this complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it? For having chastised people in another post for focusing too much on "regicide" and not on OP's "completely 100% valid point", I am a bit surprised that you're ignoring my own comments, such as: >Don't confuse this with me saying that espionage isn't possible here I'm saying, hold the fucking phone before you call for someone's murder, especially before you abdicate for their public dismemberment. Let's see what the facts of the case are before we determine how far to go with punishment (and I say this as someone being fully open to this being an act against the US that should be punished accordingly). At no point have I suggested we take on a "complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it". Is nuance dead? Must things be all or nothing? "KILL THEM NOW, and if you dare disagree with that sentiment then surely you are unwilling to defend the US at all"? Seriously?
      - adamrezich 4y ago
        > I'm saying, hold the fucking phone before you call for someone's murder what is a trial EDIT: where are you from where people get executed for crimes without a trial, why would anyone need to explicitly state that? I'm breathing fine thanks
        4y ago
Alupis 4y ago
While I agree death is a bit extreme, we do need to craft a system where knowingly providing data on American Citizens to enemies of this nation carries severe and unfair consequences. The punishment does need to be oversized, to serve as a deterrent. Do we know if this was deliberate or accidental? If the contract was explicit, and this individual knowingly violated it, then the intent is pretty clear even if the goal was not to aid China but rather to save money or similar. We see how pitiful punishments are for malfeasant corporate executives - and we see how often they recid or are copied by others cleaver enough to calculate the punishment does not outweigh the crime. The consequences for giving sensitive citizen data to China, Russia or any other nation should be severe enough to make folks think very hard before trying it. Our election meddling problem will only grow worse in the future as our adversaries grow more and more sophisticated... best we don't help them along.

That penalty seems a bit excessive

by naillo 4y ago

That penalty seems a bit excessive

MichaelCollins 4y ago

jjulius 4y ago
>They should be charged with espionage and executed like the Rosenbergs. Ah, cool, jumping to conclusions and wishing death upon people instead of waiting to see how this plays out. Don't confuse this with me saying that espionage isn't possible here, I'm just saying - cool your jets and breathe before pulling any triggers. Yikes.
- MichaelCollins 4y ago
  > Ah, cool, jumping to conclusions I never suggested denying them a trial. I want them tried and executed for espionage. Preferably in a public and awful manner.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >I never suggested denying them a trial. This is the first time I've seen you suggest it, every other post was essentially, "Kill them". Even the post I'm replying to suggests that your mind is made up and you want them dead or - at the very least - miserable as all hell, whatever the reality of the details of the case may be.
  - AnimalMuppet 4y ago
    Don't suppose you'd be willing to execute them only if they are found guilty at the trial? At best, you seem to be certain of their guilt. At worst, you seem to be advocating for the kind of trial that will definitely return a guilty verdict. Either way, cool your jets. You're way too quick to condemn on incomplete information.
  - buttercraft 4y ago
    Bullshit. If you've already decided that they're guilty and have already decided their fate, you don't really want them to have a trial. Not a fair one at least.
- adamrezich 4y ago
  is Democracy and the integrity thereof not the single most sacred and important thing everyone cares about with regards to government in the West? that's what everyone says all the time, "we're not a constitutional republic, or if we are I don't really like care or whatever—what matters is, we're a Democracy, Democracy is what matters, Democracy is all that matters." well okay then, if it's so damn important, what the hell is this complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it? you can't have it both ways, if you don't ruthlessly defend the institutions that are supposed to be the cornerstone of contemporary Western society, what do you expect will happen? foreign powers are all too happy to ruthlessly exploit what we delude ourselves into believing isn't worth defending.
  - jjulius 4y ago
    >well okay then, if it's so damn important, what the hell is this complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it? For having chastised people in another post for focusing too much on "regicide" and not on OP's "completely 100% valid point", I am a bit surprised that you're ignoring my own comments, such as: >Don't confuse this with me saying that espionage isn't possible here I'm saying, hold the fucking phone before you call for someone's murder, especially before you abdicate for their public dismemberment. Let's see what the facts of the case are before we determine how far to go with punishment (and I say this as someone being fully open to this being an act against the US that should be punished accordingly). At no point have I suggested we take on a "complete unwillingness to do everything humanly possible to protect it". Is nuance dead? Must things be all or nothing? "KILL THEM NOW, and if you dare disagree with that sentiment then surely you are unwilling to defend the US at all"? Seriously?
    - adamrezich 4y ago
      > I'm saying, hold the fucking phone before you call for someone's murder what is a trial EDIT: where are you from where people get executed for crimes without a trial, why would anyone need to explicitly state that? I'm breathing fine thanks
      - 4y ago

Alupis 4y ago

While I agree death is a bit extreme, we do need to craft a system where knowingly providing data on American Citizens to enemies of this nation carries severe and unfair consequences. The punishment does need to be oversized, to serve as a deterrent. Do we know if this was deliberate or accidental? If the contract was explicit, and this individual knowingly violated it, then the intent is pretty clear even if the goal was not to aid China but rather to save money or similar. We see how pitiful punishments are for malfeasant corporate executives - and we see how often they recid or are copied by others cleaver enough to calculate the punishment does not outweigh the crime. The consequences for giving sensitive citizen data to China, Russia or any other nation should be severe enough to make folks think very hard before trying it. Our election meddling problem will only grow worse in the future as our adversaries grow more and more sophisticated... best we don't help them along.