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This is one of those things that's not really a huge in of itself in that it doesn't have much practical implications. But it's such a wildly inappropriate and

by treis 4y ago

This is one of those things that's not really a huge in of itself in that it doesn't have much practical implications. But it's such a wildly inappropriate and unprofessional thing to do that it raises questions in my mind about using SqlLite. Which is a pretty impressive thing to do given how good the software is and how widely it's used.

haunter 4y ago
Why is it inappropriate? A lot of OSS projects make political statements all the time, I see no difference at all
- treis 4y ago
  I dispute that they do but regardless a political statement is not the same thing as a profession of religious tenets.
  - freedomben 4y ago
    It's certainly unusual, but all it's saying is that the founder and current dev team hold those religious tenets. It's (explicitly even) not forcing it on others.
    - treis 4y ago
      Wearing a polka dot bowtie is unusual. This crosses the line into being inappropriate for a workplace. It should be obvious why, but if not consider a future where the SQLite team needs to replace a member. What's the plan if the best candidate is an Orthodox Jew? Are they going to update the CoE to read: >The founder of SQLite and all current developers, except for Ruth Cohen, have pledged... Even if they're the nicest and most welcoming Christians in the world and will make a better change without hesitation it's still presents a disincentive for non-Christians. There's simply no place for that in any professional setting.
      - throwawaywu 4y ago
        >>it's still presents a disincentive for non-Christian For some non-Christians. Some of us non-Christians are open to reasonable people of every persuasion.
      - the_third_wave 4y ago
        > still presents a disincentive for non-Christians The CCCoC presents a disincentive to non-progressives or progressives who just happen to disdain identity politics and the race to the bottom in search of ever more fine-grained intersectional levels of oppression that involves.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    In a truly "diverse" society a political statement would carry the same weight as a religious one.
the_third_wave 4y ago
I consider the 'Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct' to be far more politically charged than the 'rule of Benedict' as used by SQLite. The CCCoC opens the door wide open to identity politics where the 'rule of Benedict' with 'special emphasis to 'rule 71 in particular and also rules 2, 8, 9, 18, 19, 30, 66, and in the spirit of all the rest', i.e. 71: Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets 2: Then, love your neighbor as yourself 8: Honor all people 9: Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself 18: Be a help in times of trouble 19: Console the sorrowing 30: Do no wrong to anyone, and bear patiently wrongs done to yourself 66: Do not love quarreling ...is clear in its intentions without referring to any identity groups and without proposing a whole list of sanctions and sanctioning procedures. Compare the following preface to the list of 'rules' from the 'code of Ethics' from SQLite: No one is required to follow The Rule, to know The Rule, or even to think that The Rule is a good idea. The Founder of SQLite believes that anyone who follows The Rule will live a happier and more productive life, but individuals are free to dispute or ignore that advice if they wish. The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. They view The Rule as their promise to all SQLite users of how the developers are expected to behave. This is a one-way promise, or covenant. In other words, the developers are saying: "We will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us." ...with the text of the CCCoC: We pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an open, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community. ... Community leaders are responsible for clarifying and enforcing our standards of acceptable behavior ... This Code of Conduct applies within all community spaces, and also applies when an individual is officially representing the community in public spaces ... Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be reported to the community leaders responsible for enforcement at community@libsql.org. All complaints will be reviewed and investigated promptly and fairly. All community leaders are obligated to respect the privacy and security of the reporter of any incident. ... Community leaders will follow these Community Impact Guidelines in determining the consequences for any action they deem in violation of this Code of Conduct: ... Correction ... Warning ... Temporary Ban ... Permanent Ban Take your pick of policies, I've taken mine and will follow the path of Benedict.
- pexabit 4y ago
  Even putting the identity politics bit of it aside, it is just unnecessarily hostile, and comes across as such if you haven't acclimated yourself to things like this already. Plus a lot of it, as near all of it that actually matters, goes without saying. I would be interested in knowing whether there are real instances that having a code like this one resulted in a better open source product as an innate feature of the code.

by treis 4y ago

haunter 4y ago

Why is it inappropriate? A lot of OSS projects make political statements all the time, I see no difference at all

treis 4y ago
I dispute that they do but regardless a political statement is not the same thing as a profession of religious tenets.
- freedomben 4y ago
  It's certainly unusual, but all it's saying is that the founder and current dev team hold those religious tenets. It's (explicitly even) not forcing it on others.
  - treis 4y ago
    Wearing a polka dot bowtie is unusual. This crosses the line into being inappropriate for a workplace. It should be obvious why, but if not consider a future where the SQLite team needs to replace a member. What's the plan if the best candidate is an Orthodox Jew? Are they going to update the CoE to read: >The founder of SQLite and all current developers, except for Ruth Cohen, have pledged... Even if they're the nicest and most welcoming Christians in the world and will make a better change without hesitation it's still presents a disincentive for non-Christians. There's simply no place for that in any professional setting.
    - throwawaywu 4y ago
      >>it's still presents a disincentive for non-Christian For some non-Christians. Some of us non-Christians are open to reasonable people of every persuasion.
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      > still presents a disincentive for non-Christians The CCCoC presents a disincentive to non-progressives or progressives who just happen to disdain identity politics and the race to the bottom in search of ever more fine-grained intersectional levels of oppression that involves.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  In a truly "diverse" society a political statement would carry the same weight as a religious one.

the_third_wave 4y ago

I consider the 'Contributor Covenant Code of Conduct' to be far more politically charged than the 'rule of Benedict' as used by SQLite. The CCCoC opens the door wide open to identity politics where the 'rule of Benedict' with 'special emphasis to 'rule 71 in particular and also rules 2, 8, 9, 18, 19, 30, 66, and in the spirit of all the rest', i.e. 71: Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets 2: Then, love your neighbor as yourself 8: Honor all people 9: Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself 18: Be a help in times of trouble 19: Console the sorrowing 30: Do no wrong to anyone, and bear patiently wrongs done to yourself 66: Do not love quarreling ...is clear in its intentions without referring to any identity groups and without proposing a whole list of sanctions and sanctioning procedures. Compare the following preface to the list of 'rules' from the 'code of Ethics' from SQLite: No one is required to follow The Rule, to know The Rule, or even to think that The Rule is a good idea. The Founder of SQLite believes that anyone who follows The Rule will live a happier and more productive life, but individuals are free to dispute or ignore that advice if they wish. The founder of SQLite and all current developers have pledged to follow the spirit of The Rule to the best of their ability. They view The Rule as their promise to all SQLite users of how the developers are expected to behave. This is a one-way promise, or covenant. In other words, the developers are saying: "We will treat you this way regardless of how you treat us." ...with the text of the CCCoC: We pledge to act and interact in ways that contribute to an open, welcoming, diverse, inclusive, and healthy community. ... Community leaders are responsible for clarifying and enforcing our standards of acceptable behavior ... This Code of Conduct applies within all community spaces, and also applies when an individual is officially representing the community in public spaces ... Instances of abusive, harassing, or otherwise unacceptable behavior may be reported to the community leaders responsible for enforcement at community@libsql.org. All complaints will be reviewed and investigated promptly and fairly. All community leaders are obligated to respect the privacy and security of the reporter of any incident. ... Community leaders will follow these Community Impact Guidelines in determining the consequences for any action they deem in violation of this Code of Conduct: ... Correction ... Warning ... Temporary Ban ... Permanent Ban Take your pick of policies, I've taken mine and will follow the path of Benedict.

pexabit 4y ago
Even putting the identity politics bit of it aside, it is just unnecessarily hostile, and comes across as such if you haven't acclimated yourself to things like this already. Plus a lot of it, as near all of it that actually matters, goes without saying. I would be interested in knowing whether there are real instances that having a code like this one resulted in a better open source product as an innate feature of the code.