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> SQlite's Code of Conduct Well, I had never seen that before. As an atheist that was quite a, well, revelation. I am not militant in any way and have a gene

> SQlite's Code of Conduct Well, I had never seen that before. As an atheist that was quite a, well, revelation. I am not militant in any way and have a generally lax stance about these things. For example, I have had believer friends ask if they could pray over me when I was going through rough times. My response was "I would be honored". No sense being a complete asshole when someone offers something out of love. The rules page includes this: > No one is required to follow The Rule, to know The Rule, or even to think that The Rule is a good idea. > The Founder of SQLite believes that anyone who follows The Rule will live a happier and more productive life, but individuals are free to dispute or ignore that advice if they wish. In other words, for me, very much my stance with regards to religious belief (or not). It's a "live and let live" position. Something I sometimes feel is sorely needed in today's hatred/outrage-first society.

threatofrain 4y ago
Yes but the sqlite CoC also says that it's a covenant between all current developers and their users, and for any project seeking contributions that's going to make people consider things. If you were a user, then well, you're a user, so enjoy the one-way covenant. But if you're a developer and an atheist as you say, then I don't see how that covenant as worded would stand. I see this as similar to a company that says while all its current employees pledge themselves to a religious covenant, it has never discriminated against anyone on the basis of religious faith; and yet all current employees make that pledge. If in fact the wording on the completeness of the covenant is in error, it should be easy enough to point out a sqlite developer who does not make this pledge.
- freedomben 4y ago
  > for any project seeking contributions that's going to make people consider things. SQLite isn't and doesn't claim to be seeking contributions, so it seems to me that the existing CoC covers 100% of the surface area. If they started seeking contributions, I would agree that they should consider expanding the CoC. Also, I think it's good to note that the CoC doesn't say that asshole-ish stuff will be tolerated. It's simply quiet on that. I would guess that (much like the vast majority of projects before the Contributor Covenant came about) they would not permit that sort of thing to occur, particularly given the values they've already expressed.
  - threatofrain 4y ago
    Yes, I'm talking about LibSQL. If LibSQL wanted to make a fork and wants a religious plurality of contributors, then of course they would have to change the CoC. Otherwise people seeking to join would ask, "Wait, when you say all current developers make this pledge..."
freedomben 4y ago
Unless I'm misinterpreting what you said, it sounds like you like the SQLite Code of Conduct? I do as well. I'm an atheist as well and I hate having people's religious opinions forced onto me. I believe firmly in tolerance and live and let live. I really like this Code of Conduct. It doesn't (IMHO) say that you can be a jerk to people and be part of the project. It doesn't say that you have to be a Christian. All (it seems to me) to say is that the people working on SQLite will be good and tolerant, and that the founder is Christian and believes strongly in tolerance. I fully agree, more of this is sorely needed these days.
- robomartin 4y ago
  > Unless I'm misinterpreting what you said, it sounds like you like the SQLite Code of Conduct? The part I like is where they state, as their official position, that they are OK with people not wanting anything to do with this. As you said, tolerance, live and let live. I also recognize I am able to exist as an atheist in a Christian nation precisely because of tolerance and mutual respect, with emphasis on "mutual". There are parts of the world where being atheist, LGBT, or <insert group membership here> can easily get you killed. And then there's the fact that any decent person would agree with quite a few of the items on their list. Here are 46 I think might qualify: Then, love your neighbor as yourself. Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not covet. Do not bear false witness. Honor all people. Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself. Do not become attached to pleasures. Love fasting. Relieve the poor. Clothe the naked. Visit the sick. Bury the dead. Be a help in times of trouble. Console the sorrowing. Be a stranger to the world's ways. Do not give way to anger. Do not nurse a grudge. Do not entertain deceit in your heart. Do not give a false peace. Do not forsake charity. Utter only truth from heart and mouth. Do not return evil for evil. Do no wrong to anyone, and bear patiently wrongs done to yourself. Love your enemies. Do not curse those who curse you, but rather bless them. Bear persecution for justice's sake. Be not proud. Be not addicted to wine. Be not a great eater. Be not drowsy. Be not lazy. Be not a grumbler. Be not a detractor. Recognize always that evil is your own doing, and to impute it to yourself. Keep death daily before your eyes. Keep constant guard over the actions of your life. Guard your tongue against evil and depraved speech. Hate no one. Be not jealous, nor harbor envy. Do not love quarreling. Shun arrogance. Respect your seniors. Love your juniors. Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets. Nothing wrong with aspiring to be this person, even if people could succeed at a portion of this the world would be a better place.

threatofrain 4y ago

Yes but the sqlite CoC also says that it's a covenant between all current developers and their users, and for any project seeking contributions that's going to make people consider things. If you were a user, then well, you're a user, so enjoy the one-way covenant. But if you're a developer and an atheist as you say, then I don't see how that covenant as worded would stand. I see this as similar to a company that says while all its current employees pledge themselves to a religious covenant, it has never discriminated against anyone on the basis of religious faith; and yet all current employees make that pledge. If in fact the wording on the completeness of the covenant is in error, it should be easy enough to point out a sqlite developer who does not make this pledge.

freedomben 4y ago
> for any project seeking contributions that's going to make people consider things. SQLite isn't and doesn't claim to be seeking contributions, so it seems to me that the existing CoC covers 100% of the surface area. If they started seeking contributions, I would agree that they should consider expanding the CoC. Also, I think it's good to note that the CoC doesn't say that asshole-ish stuff will be tolerated. It's simply quiet on that. I would guess that (much like the vast majority of projects before the Contributor Covenant came about) they would not permit that sort of thing to occur, particularly given the values they've already expressed.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  Yes, I'm talking about LibSQL. If LibSQL wanted to make a fork and wants a religious plurality of contributors, then of course they would have to change the CoC. Otherwise people seeking to join would ask, "Wait, when you say all current developers make this pledge..."

freedomben 4y ago

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you said, it sounds like you like the SQLite Code of Conduct? I do as well. I'm an atheist as well and I hate having people's religious opinions forced onto me. I believe firmly in tolerance and live and let live. I really like this Code of Conduct. It doesn't (IMHO) say that you can be a jerk to people and be part of the project. It doesn't say that you have to be a Christian. All (it seems to me) to say is that the people working on SQLite will be good and tolerant, and that the founder is Christian and believes strongly in tolerance. I fully agree, more of this is sorely needed these days.

robomartin 4y ago
> Unless I'm misinterpreting what you said, it sounds like you like the SQLite Code of Conduct? The part I like is where they state, as their official position, that they are OK with people not wanting anything to do with this. As you said, tolerance, live and let live. I also recognize I am able to exist as an atheist in a Christian nation precisely because of tolerance and mutual respect, with emphasis on "mutual". There are parts of the world where being atheist, LGBT, or <insert group membership here> can easily get you killed. And then there's the fact that any decent person would agree with quite a few of the items on their list. Here are 46 I think might qualify: Then, love your neighbor as yourself. Do not murder. Do not commit adultery. Do not steal. Do not covet. Do not bear false witness. Honor all people. Do not do to another what you would not have done to yourself. Do not become attached to pleasures. Love fasting. Relieve the poor. Clothe the naked. Visit the sick. Bury the dead. Be a help in times of trouble. Console the sorrowing. Be a stranger to the world's ways. Do not give way to anger. Do not nurse a grudge. Do not entertain deceit in your heart. Do not give a false peace. Do not forsake charity. Utter only truth from heart and mouth. Do not return evil for evil. Do no wrong to anyone, and bear patiently wrongs done to yourself. Love your enemies. Do not curse those who curse you, but rather bless them. Bear persecution for justice's sake. Be not proud. Be not addicted to wine. Be not a great eater. Be not drowsy. Be not lazy. Be not a grumbler. Be not a detractor. Recognize always that evil is your own doing, and to impute it to yourself. Keep death daily before your eyes. Keep constant guard over the actions of your life. Guard your tongue against evil and depraved speech. Hate no one. Be not jealous, nor harbor envy. Do not love quarreling. Shun arrogance. Respect your seniors. Love your juniors. Make peace with your adversary before the sun sets. Nothing wrong with aspiring to be this person, even if people could succeed at a portion of this the world would be a better place.