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The US Civil War war never achieved its stated aims for black / previously-ensalved people. Even though the North won the US Civil War, because of Andrew Johnso

The US Civil War war never achieved its stated aims for black / previously-ensalved people. Even though the North won the US Civil War, because of Andrew Johnson (edit: not Jackson) and the ultra-conservative SCOTUS, the people of the US South were able to put into effect Jim Crow laws, and the South essentially won the war over whether non-white people should be treated as equal citizens – there's a book on this subject: https://www.amazon.ca/How-South-Won-Civil-War/dp/0190900903 https://www.amazon.ca/How-South-Won-Civil-War/dp/0190900903

haberman 4y ago
Do you mean Rutherford B Hayes? Andrew Jackson died in 1845, 16 years before the civil war began.
- winter_blue 4y ago
  Sorry, I meant Andrew Johnson. He kept vetoing progressive bills, opposed the 14th amendment, etc. Rutherford B. Hayes was horrible too, since he was the one who pulled federal troops out of the South (who were there to protect non-white people's voting rights). Honestly, the Southern states should never have been admitted back into the Union _as states_, but should rather have been annexed back as territories (with no federal representation). Abolitionists admitted those states back under the theory that blacks voting would result in progressive folks being elected. But we're still paying the price of that foresight today. If the southern states were territories, Trump & Bush would never have won, the Congress would have been a highly-progressive for the past two decades, etc. Honestly, even today it might be an improvement if these southern states just formed their own country, but with a free-trade and currency-sharing treaty with the rest of the US.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    The issues are the electoral college, two senators per state regardless of population and gerrymandering. If we truly had “one person one vote”, most of these problems would be solved
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      1) multiple member constituencies for minority districts might actually solve a lot of problems 2) there is an section in the 14th amendment which allows states’ electoral votes and their Congressional representation to be zeroed out if they don’t play nice (basically the same as territories)
      - winter_blue 4y ago
        Re: 2) The amendment says: “the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.” Not zero out, but rather reduce. Regardless, the conservative SCOTUS would never enforce this anyways.
greendave 4y ago
There’s a gap between ‘did not achieve its stated aims’ and ‘did not win any actual rights’ that is big enough to drive a truck through… Also, Andrew Jackson wasn’t a very nice guy, but he’d been dead for 28 years when the Civil War ended. Can’t really blame him for how things worked out at that point.
_-david-_ 4y ago
The civil war did achieve its stated goal. Here is Lincoln on his goal for the war: >My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that He saved the Union so he accomplished his goal for the war.

haberman 4y ago

Do you mean Rutherford B Hayes? Andrew Jackson died in 1845, 16 years before the civil war began.

winter_blue 4y ago
Sorry, I meant Andrew Johnson. He kept vetoing progressive bills, opposed the 14th amendment, etc. Rutherford B. Hayes was horrible too, since he was the one who pulled federal troops out of the South (who were there to protect non-white people's voting rights). Honestly, the Southern states should never have been admitted back into the Union _as states_, but should rather have been annexed back as territories (with no federal representation). Abolitionists admitted those states back under the theory that blacks voting would result in progressive folks being elected. But we're still paying the price of that foresight today. If the southern states were territories, Trump & Bush would never have won, the Congress would have been a highly-progressive for the past two decades, etc. Honestly, even today it might be an improvement if these southern states just formed their own country, but with a free-trade and currency-sharing treaty with the rest of the US.
- scarface74 4y ago
  The issues are the electoral college, two senators per state regardless of population and gerrymandering. If we truly had “one person one vote”, most of these problems would be solved
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    1) multiple member constituencies for minority districts might actually solve a lot of problems 2) there is an section in the 14th amendment which allows states’ electoral votes and their Congressional representation to be zeroed out if they don’t play nice (basically the same as territories)
    - winter_blue 4y ago
      Re: 2) The amendment says: “the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.” Not zero out, but rather reduce. Regardless, the conservative SCOTUS would never enforce this anyways.

greendave 4y ago

There’s a gap between ‘did not achieve its stated aims’ and ‘did not win any actual rights’ that is big enough to drive a truck through… Also, Andrew Jackson wasn’t a very nice guy, but he’d been dead for 28 years when the Civil War ended. Can’t really blame him for how things worked out at that point.

_-david-_ 4y ago

The civil war did achieve its stated goal. Here is Lincoln on his goal for the war: >My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that He saved the Union so he accomplished his goal for the war.