4 ms·

It's pretty bizarre how, at least in the US, we've allowed robocalls and spam to basically make phone calls useless. Everyone I know gets multiple spam calls a

It's pretty bizarre how, at least in the US, we've allowed robocalls and spam to basically make phone calls useless. Everyone I know gets multiple spam calls a day, most people just don't answer their phones anymore unless it's someone they know. Everyone hates this yet no one in power seems to even care.

samename 4y ago
“no one in power seems to care” Isn’t this an example of the exact opposite? The people in power and in charge of our communications network are preparing to block providers who aren’t following their robocall policy.
- standardUser 4y ago
  Maybe they care now, but for a good 2 or 3 decades they sure didn't seem to mind.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    In fairness, this robocall surge has only become a real problem in the past maybe 5ish years. Before that, you did receive robocalls, but they were infrequent. Now, I don't know anyone that doesn't receive at least one per day... I often receive multiple. My phone has become useless because of this...
  - wpietri 4y ago
    The FCC has been going after robocallers all this time. E.g., here's one from 15 years ago that I happened to remember, Cardholder Services: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-07-977A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-07-977A1.pdf The problem they're solving now is securing the phone network, which is a harder problem. Important barriers included 1) decades of history where it wasn't necessary, 2) entrenched industry players not wanting to change anything, 3) an ill-considered opening up of telephone system interconnection, 4) a quasi-religious deregulatory/free-market credo popular among a segment of politicians, and 5) politicians who are more sensitive to the concerns of rich execs. I think the reason it is happening now is that a lot of the people arguing against this have finally realized that it's dooming the telephone call, so their businesses are feeling it.
  - jsmith45 4y ago
    I'm confused. Historical robocalls by legit marketing firms were largely eliminated by the rule banning making such calls to cell phones, combined with the do-not-call registry. That largely fixed the problem from legitimate robocallers (except the handful of exceptions made in the relevent laws). The more recent robocall problem (that this order is trying to address) is from literal scammers, who are knowingly operating illegally, hence why they spoof Caller ID, etc. These have mostly only been been a major problem in the past 5 or so years, perhaps a bit longer.
- treeman79 4y ago
  Decades late. Probably only because the people in charge are getting fed up themselves.
- boppo1 4y ago
  I feel that it is too little too late. Until we pin down one of the heads of the scammy companies that do this and publicly execute them, I don't think anyone will feel justice has been served. Like, 4k-streaming-hanging-in-times-square public, not lethal-injection-with-limited-viewing-space.
  - zamalek 4y ago
    > I feel that it is too little too late. Keep in mind who was the previous chairperson of the FCC, and who appointed him. Jessica has been moving at breakneck speed since she was appointed. Disallowing connections from the company is effectively executing them, would you engage with a telecom business (legitimate or not) that is unable to connect to the average American?
    - lazide 4y ago
      It depends on how long it takes (and how hard it is) to setup a new telecom company connection like this. If hard and takes awhile, yeah it will help. Otherwise, they’ll just churn through shell companies.
- pianoben 4y ago
  Yeah, after like a decade or more of inattention. Even if they somehow block all robocalls, it's going to be years before people begin to trust their phones again, if ever. They (telecoms and regulators, all) really screwed up hard on this one. I have to wonder who really benefitted from this broken status quo, besides the spammers themselves.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > ... it's going to be years before people begin to trust their phones again, if ever. This is a very strong point. It's helped me arrive at the conclusion that phone communication is largely an unnecessary luxury. Of course, I believe that having the option of calling someone important to me (or receiving their call) in an emergency situation is difficult to overrate but I've also pretty much entirely limited my verbal phone conversations to that sort of situation. Just about any other situation where I might be expected to have / use my phone is actually a problem with the other party's expectations.
wpietri 4y ago
I think a lot of people would have stopped answering their phones regardless. Letting random people interrupt you with a conversation may have been the best UX available 100 years ago, but I don't think that's the case now. I note that 81% of millennials "sometimes have to summon up the courage to make a phone call", and 75% will avoid calls that are "time consuming". https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-ignore-calls#data https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-ignore-calls...
- LiquidSky 4y ago
  I don't prefer phone calls either, but you do have legitimate need to receive calls from people you don't already know: prospective clients if you have a business, hospitals/doctor's offices, etc. It's just frustrating that we've allowed the system to go from "this unknown caller may be something important or something I want to answer" to "this is almost certainly spam".
  - wpietri 4y ago
    I agree it's frustrating for the people who still answer their phones. I'm just saying that spam calls may not be the primary reason the phone call is becoming useless. As comparison, fax machines did get a lot of spam, and there are still people who depend on faxing. But spam is not the primary reason fax machines died out.

samename 4y ago

“no one in power seems to care” Isn’t this an example of the exact opposite? The people in power and in charge of our communications network are preparing to block providers who aren’t following their robocall policy.

standardUser 4y ago
Maybe they care now, but for a good 2 or 3 decades they sure didn't seem to mind.
- Alupis 4y ago
  In fairness, this robocall surge has only become a real problem in the past maybe 5ish years. Before that, you did receive robocalls, but they were infrequent. Now, I don't know anyone that doesn't receive at least one per day... I often receive multiple. My phone has become useless because of this...
- wpietri 4y ago
  The FCC has been going after robocallers all this time. E.g., here's one from 15 years ago that I happened to remember, Cardholder Services: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-07-977A1.pdf https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DA-07-977A1.pdf The problem they're solving now is securing the phone network, which is a harder problem. Important barriers included 1) decades of history where it wasn't necessary, 2) entrenched industry players not wanting to change anything, 3) an ill-considered opening up of telephone system interconnection, 4) a quasi-religious deregulatory/free-market credo popular among a segment of politicians, and 5) politicians who are more sensitive to the concerns of rich execs. I think the reason it is happening now is that a lot of the people arguing against this have finally realized that it's dooming the telephone call, so their businesses are feeling it.
- jsmith45 4y ago
  I'm confused. Historical robocalls by legit marketing firms were largely eliminated by the rule banning making such calls to cell phones, combined with the do-not-call registry. That largely fixed the problem from legitimate robocallers (except the handful of exceptions made in the relevent laws). The more recent robocall problem (that this order is trying to address) is from literal scammers, who are knowingly operating illegally, hence why they spoof Caller ID, etc. These have mostly only been been a major problem in the past 5 or so years, perhaps a bit longer.
treeman79 4y ago
Decades late. Probably only because the people in charge are getting fed up themselves.
boppo1 4y ago
I feel that it is too little too late. Until we pin down one of the heads of the scammy companies that do this and publicly execute them, I don't think anyone will feel justice has been served. Like, 4k-streaming-hanging-in-times-square public, not lethal-injection-with-limited-viewing-space.
- zamalek 4y ago
  > I feel that it is too little too late. Keep in mind who was the previous chairperson of the FCC, and who appointed him. Jessica has been moving at breakneck speed since she was appointed. Disallowing connections from the company is effectively executing them, would you engage with a telecom business (legitimate or not) that is unable to connect to the average American?
  - lazide 4y ago
    It depends on how long it takes (and how hard it is) to setup a new telecom company connection like this. If hard and takes awhile, yeah it will help. Otherwise, they’ll just churn through shell companies.
pianoben 4y ago
Yeah, after like a decade or more of inattention. Even if they somehow block all robocalls, it's going to be years before people begin to trust their phones again, if ever. They (telecoms and regulators, all) really screwed up hard on this one. I have to wonder who really benefitted from this broken status quo, besides the spammers themselves.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
  > ... it's going to be years before people begin to trust their phones again, if ever. This is a very strong point. It's helped me arrive at the conclusion that phone communication is largely an unnecessary luxury. Of course, I believe that having the option of calling someone important to me (or receiving their call) in an emergency situation is difficult to overrate but I've also pretty much entirely limited my verbal phone conversations to that sort of situation. Just about any other situation where I might be expected to have / use my phone is actually a problem with the other party's expectations.

wpietri 4y ago

I think a lot of people would have stopped answering their phones regardless. Letting random people interrupt you with a conversation may have been the best UX available 100 years ago, but I don't think that's the case now. I note that 81% of millennials "sometimes have to summon up the courage to make a phone call", and 75% will avoid calls that are "time consuming". https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-ignore-calls#data https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/why-millennials-ignore-calls...

LiquidSky 4y ago
I don't prefer phone calls either, but you do have legitimate need to receive calls from people you don't already know: prospective clients if you have a business, hospitals/doctor's offices, etc. It's just frustrating that we've allowed the system to go from "this unknown caller may be something important or something I want to answer" to "this is almost certainly spam".
- wpietri 4y ago
  I agree it's frustrating for the people who still answer their phones. I'm just saying that spam calls may not be the primary reason the phone call is becoming useless. As comparison, fax machines did get a lot of spam, and there are still people who depend on faxing. But spam is not the primary reason fax machines died out.