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I think the comment is actually completely on-point and tells that OP isn't just some random backend developer that rants about frontend development. If you're

by enlyth 4y ago

I think the comment is actually completely on-point and tells that OP isn't just some random backend developer that rants about frontend development. If you're using something in a professional manner, you need to leverage the existing tooling, ecosystem and libraries. Do you have time to rewrite things from scratch like react-testing-library, styled-components, Apollo GraphQL, DraftJS, react-hook-form, and various component libraries? If you want to actually focus on your business logic you don't have time to do this stuff, otherwise you'll spend two weeks making a dropdown.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
toastercat 4y ago
I disagree, to me it seems like they are having an argument by themselves simply because the post dare call a minimal view library a "React alternative". EDIT: It's also just kind of off-topic and representative of stereotypical HN cynicism. Also "using something in professional manner" itself is a huge assumption -- are we going to forget that people do front-end development in non-corporate or professional settings? Calling a minimal view library a "React alternative" may be borderline offensive to professional React developers, but it's also actually helpful to people who are looking for an alternative when React doesn't fit their use-case.
- scrollaway 4y ago
  Espresso.js is a React alternative like TempleOS is a Windows alternative. The ecosystem is a core part of React, because of course it is. It's similar to how people build "wordpress alternatives" that are just a blog with zero plugin capability and then wonder how their better product isn't getting traction. Sure, technically, wordpress is just a blog; but that is not why people choose it. (And I have no love for it)
  - toastercat 4y ago
    I prefer to compare apples to apples. Maybe a better example would be comparing [less popular view library] to React is like comparing Linux w/ Proton to Windows for the purpose of gaming.
- onion2k 4y ago
  It's also just kind of off-topic and representative of stereotypical HN cynicism. I don't think that's the tone I was aiming for. My point is really that for Espresso, or any other library that's aiming to be an alternative to another big and popular library, needs to do more than just being technically better. It needs good examples, clear docs, support from the community, and ultimately a well thought out "ethos". Espresso is lacking a few of those things. That's not even really a criticism of the library; it's just the state of library development and populism in the JS ecosystem in general. A large part of a devs decision making process comes down to things that aren't code. It's a bit like the "build it, they will come" route to market that kills so many startups. Just making something great isn't enough. You also need to handhold your users to get them to try it.

by enlyth 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

toastercat 4y ago

I disagree, to me it seems like they are having an argument by themselves simply because the post dare call a minimal view library a "React alternative". EDIT: It's also just kind of off-topic and representative of stereotypical HN cynicism. Also "using something in professional manner" itself is a huge assumption -- are we going to forget that people do front-end development in non-corporate or professional settings? Calling a minimal view library a "React alternative" may be borderline offensive to professional React developers, but it's also actually helpful to people who are looking for an alternative when React doesn't fit their use-case.

scrollaway 4y ago
Espresso.js is a React alternative like TempleOS is a Windows alternative. The ecosystem is a core part of React, because of course it is. It's similar to how people build "wordpress alternatives" that are just a blog with zero plugin capability and then wonder how their better product isn't getting traction. Sure, technically, wordpress is just a blog; but that is not why people choose it. (And I have no love for it)
- toastercat 4y ago
  I prefer to compare apples to apples. Maybe a better example would be comparing [less popular view library] to React is like comparing Linux w/ Proton to Windows for the purpose of gaming.
onion2k 4y ago
It's also just kind of off-topic and representative of stereotypical HN cynicism. I don't think that's the tone I was aiming for. My point is really that for Espresso, or any other library that's aiming to be an alternative to another big and popular library, needs to do more than just being technically better. It needs good examples, clear docs, support from the community, and ultimately a well thought out "ethos". Espresso is lacking a few of those things. That's not even really a criticism of the library; it's just the state of library development and populism in the JS ecosystem in general. A large part of a devs decision making process comes down to things that aren't code. It's a bit like the "build it, they will come" route to market that kills so many startups. Just making something great isn't enough. You also need to handhold your users to get them to try it.