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Home Heating with Hydrogen: Ill-Advised as It Sounds

1 points by samizdis 4y ago

daly 4y ago
I tried this. I bought a hydrogen-powered fuel cell. There are some things you need to know: Hydrogen makes steel brittle. Hydrogen WILL leak through any joint you make. Hydrogen flame is invisible. You can't feel it when you are next to it but it will burn you if you enter the flame area. Hydrogen is energy storage, not an energy source. Hydrogen in certain percentages is a REALLY good fuel-air explosive. Sigh. Platinum will self-ignite hydrogen. Don't try this at home.
ephbit 4y ago
> The studies show that using renewable electricity to first make hydrogen with electrolysis, and then using the hydrogen to heat spaces is less efficient than using the electricity to directly power a heat pump. Wow, such geniuses they are, to come to this finding. /s One doesn't need to do the tiniest bit of experiment to know this. What these people don't seem to understand: an electric grid is a vulnerable system that constantly needs to be kept in balance by active measures, or it will break down. See current situation in Europe, where reports/discussions about grid stability have suddenly become quite frequent, as if it hadn't been obvious for years if not decades that simply building out renewables without adding buffer capacity, will inevitably lead to instability. So, hydrogen for home heating doesn't merely serve the purpose to transport energy where it's needed. No, it also serves the purpose that's becoming more and more important: buffering/storing energy so generation of electricity/energy and its use can be temporally decoupled (at the scale of months). Unless an electric grid has ample storage capacity attached to it, generation and demand have to be mostly synchronous, which just doesn't reflect physical (weather/climate) reality. Try using solar energy for heating homes via heat pumps in winter in northern Europe. You'll have to have a really well insulated home to pull that off.
ephbit 4y ago
> There are many applications where hydrogen could be essential. But for buildings, writes Cebon, “heat pumps are a clear winning technology. Absolutely true. But, countries like Germany are still far away from having heat pumps as leading technology for heating homes. Gas/oil furnaces still make up (50 % + 25 % ) ~ 75 % of all home heating systems. Let's wait a few years and see where the electricity will come from, when say 10 Million homes are equipped with a 2 kW heat pump that's chugging away several hours a day in winter. And these 2 kW are a rather low estimate. That'd be 20 GW of additional load not just for the generators/turbines/panels but also for the grid. Quite an increase from the currently roughly 70 GW. So, yes, heat pumps are surely the future. But I'll remain sceptic as to how fast they can be deployed everywhere. I'd say the better way to spend money is to keep oil/gas furnaces as long as they work, and use those ressources to further insulate homes instead.

1 points by samizdis 4y ago

daly 4y ago

I tried this. I bought a hydrogen-powered fuel cell. There are some things you need to know: Hydrogen makes steel brittle. Hydrogen WILL leak through any joint you make. Hydrogen flame is invisible. You can't feel it when you are next to it but it will burn you if you enter the flame area. Hydrogen is energy storage, not an energy source. Hydrogen in certain percentages is a REALLY good fuel-air explosive. Sigh. Platinum will self-ignite hydrogen. Don't try this at home.

ephbit 4y ago

> The studies show that using renewable electricity to first make hydrogen with electrolysis, and then using the hydrogen to heat spaces is less efficient than using the electricity to directly power a heat pump. Wow, such geniuses they are, to come to this finding. /s One doesn't need to do the tiniest bit of experiment to know this. What these people don't seem to understand: an electric grid is a vulnerable system that constantly needs to be kept in balance by active measures, or it will break down. See current situation in Europe, where reports/discussions about grid stability have suddenly become quite frequent, as if it hadn't been obvious for years if not decades that simply building out renewables without adding buffer capacity, will inevitably lead to instability. So, hydrogen for home heating doesn't merely serve the purpose to transport energy where it's needed. No, it also serves the purpose that's becoming more and more important: buffering/storing energy so generation of electricity/energy and its use can be temporally decoupled (at the scale of months). Unless an electric grid has ample storage capacity attached to it, generation and demand have to be mostly synchronous, which just doesn't reflect physical (weather/climate) reality. Try using solar energy for heating homes via heat pumps in winter in northern Europe. You'll have to have a really well insulated home to pull that off.

ephbit 4y ago

> There are many applications where hydrogen could be essential. But for buildings, writes Cebon, “heat pumps are a clear winning technology. Absolutely true. But, countries like Germany are still far away from having heat pumps as leading technology for heating homes. Gas/oil furnaces still make up (50 % + 25 % ) ~ 75 % of all home heating systems. Let's wait a few years and see where the electricity will come from, when say 10 Million homes are equipped with a 2 kW heat pump that's chugging away several hours a day in winter. And these 2 kW are a rather low estimate. That'd be 20 GW of additional load not just for the generators/turbines/panels but also for the grid. Quite an increase from the currently roughly 70 GW. So, yes, heat pumps are surely the future. But I'll remain sceptic as to how fast they can be deployed everywhere. I'd say the better way to spend money is to keep oil/gas furnaces as long as they work, and use those ressources to further insulate homes instead.