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Thanks for this. I have yet to read Blood Meridian. I have read The Road and NCFOM. Both were great and absorbing reads. But I have one major gripe with CM (if

by ak39 4y ago

Thanks for this. I have yet to read Blood Meridian. I have read The Road and NCFOM. Both were great and absorbing reads. But I have one major gripe with CM (if I am allowed to do so). It's not his style - in fact it's his unique and great style of writing that would make anyone forget about what I'm going to say. My problem with CM: his themes of post-apocalyptic, desperate humanity at war with itself and the singular savagery of ONE man against all - takes the assumed position that humans by nature (generally, of course) will almost always reduce to selfish savagery even to the point of normalising cannibalism. Of course, he needed to create this assumed backdrop for many of his stories (eg The Road needed this literally visceral danger for a father to demonstrate his instinctive protection for his only son) but CM's imagined scenario of a society that's eating itself is far from real evidence we have seen of humans. Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. I know you can't criticise a work of fiction this way, an author is entitled his artistic philosophy and outlook. But when the writing is so masterful, when the rest of the philosophies of the stories are so elevated and cerebrally engaging, one can't help but find the story of humans cultivating others for food jarring and out of place. (This is my first "criticism" of any work of literature.)

kamranjon 4y ago
I highly recommend Suttree, which is much less in that post-apocalyptic vein. It’s incredibly humanistic and funny and I think it’s his best work. It still has his incredible command of the English language and sequences of just absolutely beautiful prose, and in some ways it can be quite devastating but it’s much more balanced with the endearing parts of humanity I think.
- whiddershins 4y ago
  I second Suttree. I love the preface so much I memorized most of it.
  - everybodyknows 4y ago
    Suttree is an early work, and said to be heavily autobiographical. I read it as a key to understanding McCarthy's view of the world, being essentially tragic. I'd suggest there's a similar identification between the author and the Kid of Blood Meridian. What McCarthy thinks of Melville's Moby Dick I have not heard, but for the reader anyway, there's a rich cross-fertilization. Both of ideas -- being a pawn within a monstrous, doomed enterprise -- and of technique, as with the cryptic oracles of catastrophe who say their piece and then vanish from the narrative.
SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago
> post-apocalyptic, desperate humanity at war with itself and the singular savagery If you were to show me that phrase and ask which book matches it most closely, I would have to say "Blood Meridian". It's a singular work. Texas-Mexico border area, 1850s. It's definitely post-apocalyptic, the aftermath of an invasion of technologically sophisticated but genocidally savage aliens ... for the native Americans.
- defen 4y ago
  It's also worth noting that for Blood Meridian, McCarthy learned Spanish and did five years of historical research with his MacArthur award money. The broad strokes of the story are true - there really was a group of scalp hunters who went rogue, raping and murdering the people they had been hired to protect.
- AlotOfReading 4y ago
  Any historical "invasion of technologically sophisticated aliens" in the time period blood meridian is set in happened centuries before. It's actually near a zenith of native political and military power. Spain is gone, Mexico is struggling to build a government, and the US hasn't yet become a dominant power in the region. Blood meridian is a book I often recommend as an approachable introduction to what people experiencing the period might have thought, but framing the context is somewhat important.
tablespoon 4y ago
> ...but CM's imagined scenario of a society that's eating itself is far from real evidence we have seen of humans. Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. I've literally only read the Cliff's Notes version of The Road, but the scenario it describes seems far bleaker, prolonged, and hopeless than any historical event you might look for as precedent. It seems quite plausible that what the book describes is after some people tried to pull together in some feel-good way, and then failed and fell apart again because it wasn't going to work.
tmountain 4y ago
Some of this is in the service of making commentary on broader topics. I view Blood Meridian as a treatise on the horrific nature of war. McCarthy accomplishes this via an endlessly gruesome tale, but the underlying message couldn’t be more clear.
krelian 4y ago
The Road is his only post-apocalyptic novel, it's not really a theme of his. The potential for savagery, how easy it is for some to take a human life or completely disregard it is a theme that runs in many of his novels. In a post-apocalyptic scenario like in The Road, where everyone is literally scavenging for their lives you can bet your ass life will become a horror show. Not for everyone, not anywhere, but for enough people to determine that it is part of human nature just a much as extending help to one another. To me CM's work explores the duality of beauty (in the most expansive sense of the word) and tragedy that exists in the world. I recommend All the Pretty Horses if you want something less intense than The Road or Blood Meridian but no less powerful. One my favorite quotes: “He thought that in the beauty of the world were hid a secret. He thought that the world’s heart beat at some terrible cost and that the world’s pain and its beauty moved in a relationship of diverging equity and that in this headlong deficit the blood of multitudes might ultimately be exacted for the vision of a single flower.”
jnsie 4y ago
> Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. I find it hard to agree with this after COVID showed that a substantial portion of the US and global population weren't willing to wear masks to protect their fellow man and life saving vaccines were purposefully politicized. I also think that post apocalyptic novels typically live in a world where traditional power structures have been abandoned/destroyed and individualism is necessary for survival so I'm not sure one can draw a parallel between typical catastrophes and apocalyptic events.
brudgers 4y ago
At the end of The Road, there are The Good Guys. It is an allegory of fathers and sons.
afpx 4y ago
For real evidence of Humanity's cruelty: Read Pinker's "Better Angels". Luckily, we're trending upward.
jjulius 4y ago
>... CM's imagined scenario of a society that's eating itself is far from real evidence we have seen of humans. Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. This is very tangential, but this is one of the reasons I could never get into The Walking Dead and similar shows. It was really hard for me to suspend my disbelief there.
somenameforme 4y ago
With good authors, I would always keep metaphor in mind. In the case of The Road, I think what you're hitting on arguably the single most critical question the book asks: do we cooperate because we're benevolent, or do we cooperate because we're selfish and cooperation furthers our own interests? When working together is clearly beneficial, not cooperating is simply illogical. But what happens when cooperation is not only not clearly beneficial, but may even be actively detrimental? What happens if you're starving to death, and you see a weaker man who has enough, barely enough, to feed himself approaching? And that is all there is? Adding a notion of a child, of the future itself, into the picture makes it all the more difficult.

by ak39 4y ago

kamranjon 4y ago

I highly recommend Suttree, which is much less in that post-apocalyptic vein. It’s incredibly humanistic and funny and I think it’s his best work. It still has his incredible command of the English language and sequences of just absolutely beautiful prose, and in some ways it can be quite devastating but it’s much more balanced with the endearing parts of humanity I think.

whiddershins 4y ago
I second Suttree. I love the preface so much I memorized most of it.
- everybodyknows 4y ago
  Suttree is an early work, and said to be heavily autobiographical. I read it as a key to understanding McCarthy's view of the world, being essentially tragic. I'd suggest there's a similar identification between the author and the Kid of Blood Meridian. What McCarthy thinks of Melville's Moby Dick I have not heard, but for the reader anyway, there's a rich cross-fertilization. Both of ideas -- being a pawn within a monstrous, doomed enterprise -- and of technique, as with the cryptic oracles of catastrophe who say their piece and then vanish from the narrative.

SideburnsOfDoom 4y ago

> post-apocalyptic, desperate humanity at war with itself and the singular savagery If you were to show me that phrase and ask which book matches it most closely, I would have to say "Blood Meridian". It's a singular work. Texas-Mexico border area, 1850s. It's definitely post-apocalyptic, the aftermath of an invasion of technologically sophisticated but genocidally savage aliens ... for the native Americans.

defen 4y ago
It's also worth noting that for Blood Meridian, McCarthy learned Spanish and did five years of historical research with his MacArthur award money. The broad strokes of the story are true - there really was a group of scalp hunters who went rogue, raping and murdering the people they had been hired to protect.
AlotOfReading 4y ago
Any historical "invasion of technologically sophisticated aliens" in the time period blood meridian is set in happened centuries before. It's actually near a zenith of native political and military power. Spain is gone, Mexico is struggling to build a government, and the US hasn't yet become a dominant power in the region. Blood meridian is a book I often recommend as an approachable introduction to what people experiencing the period might have thought, but framing the context is somewhat important.

tablespoon 4y ago

> ...but CM's imagined scenario of a society that's eating itself is far from real evidence we have seen of humans. Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. I've literally only read the Cliff's Notes version of The Road, but the scenario it describes seems far bleaker, prolonged, and hopeless than any historical event you might look for as precedent. It seems quite plausible that what the book describes is after some people tried to pull together in some feel-good way, and then failed and fell apart again because it wasn't going to work.

tmountain 4y ago

Some of this is in the service of making commentary on broader topics. I view Blood Meridian as a treatise on the horrific nature of war. McCarthy accomplishes this via an endlessly gruesome tale, but the underlying message couldn’t be more clear.

krelian 4y ago

The Road is his only post-apocalyptic novel, it's not really a theme of his. The potential for savagery, how easy it is for some to take a human life or completely disregard it is a theme that runs in many of his novels. In a post-apocalyptic scenario like in The Road, where everyone is literally scavenging for their lives you can bet your ass life will become a horror show. Not for everyone, not anywhere, but for enough people to determine that it is part of human nature just a much as extending help to one another. To me CM's work explores the duality of beauty (in the most expansive sense of the word) and tragedy that exists in the world. I recommend All the Pretty Horses if you want something less intense than The Road or Blood Meridian but no less powerful. One my favorite quotes: “He thought that in the beauty of the world were hid a secret. He thought that the world’s heart beat at some terrible cost and that the world’s pain and its beauty moved in a relationship of diverging equity and that in this headlong deficit the blood of multitudes might ultimately be exacted for the vision of a single flower.”

jnsie 4y ago

> Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. I find it hard to agree with this after COVID showed that a substantial portion of the US and global population weren't willing to wear masks to protect their fellow man and life saving vaccines were purposefully politicized. I also think that post apocalyptic novels typically live in a world where traditional power structures have been abandoned/destroyed and individualism is necessary for survival so I'm not sure one can draw a parallel between typical catastrophes and apocalyptic events.

brudgers 4y ago

At the end of The Road, there are The Good Guys. It is an allegory of fathers and sons.

afpx 4y ago

For real evidence of Humanity's cruelty: Read Pinker's "Better Angels". Luckily, we're trending upward.

jjulius 4y ago

>... CM's imagined scenario of a society that's eating itself is far from real evidence we have seen of humans. Real evidence shows that during catastrophic moments like earthquakes and prolonged famine and even war, human societies have shown remarkable strength to save and to protect and to help one another, sometimes at great individual sacrifice. This is very tangential, but this is one of the reasons I could never get into The Walking Dead and similar shows. It was really hard for me to suspend my disbelief there.

somenameforme 4y ago

With good authors, I would always keep metaphor in mind. In the case of The Road, I think what you're hitting on arguably the single most critical question the book asks: do we cooperate because we're benevolent, or do we cooperate because we're selfish and cooperation furthers our own interests? When working together is clearly beneficial, not cooperating is simply illogical. But what happens when cooperation is not only not clearly beneficial, but may even be actively detrimental? What happens if you're starving to death, and you see a weaker man who has enough, barely enough, to feed himself approaching? And that is all there is? Adding a notion of a child, of the future itself, into the picture makes it all the more difficult.