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https://twitter.com/GatesJets https://twitter.com/GatesJets Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.
by id 4y ago
https://twitter.com/GatesJets https://twitter.com/GatesJets
Hard to take Gates seriously on climate change. Imagine everyone was living like this.
- bamboozled 4y agoThis is amazing and really goes to show the dude, no matter how good his intentions may be, is a hypocrite. One rule for him, different rules for everyone else.
- samatman 4y agoI dislike Gates for the old reasons, and some of the new ones as well. But this basic argument from hypocrisy is applied to a lot of people, and it's a weak case. If someone is using an appreciable fraction of their fortune to decarbonize the grid, and otherwise make industrial civilization sustainable, they can fly private jets as much as they like. Ultimately, carbon in the atmosphere is a simple game of addition. If Gates Brand nuclear plants take 100GW of coal and natural gas offline, I don't care if the man lives on an airplane with a whole second fleet for in-flight refueling, because it doesn't matter. The reason the hypocrisy argument sucks is that, by definition, you can only apply it to rich people who see a problem with climate change and are doing something about it. The many wealthy private-jet owners who are invested in fuel extraction don't even get mentioned. They get wealthy when carbon emissions get worse, and then spend their wealth jetting around. Can you link me to the page which tracks Mohamed bin Sultan's jet travel? No? I believe I've made my point.
- raspberry1337 4y ago> Mohamed bin Sultan's jet travel? No? I believe I've made my point. Mohamed bin Sultan did not claim that polar bears might be dead by 2020 and that Florida will be under water by 2030, hence he can't be a hypocrite. Yes, hypocrisy can only be be applied to someone who claims something, argues for a certain something. The fact that everyone does not beleive in apocalyptic global warming destroying mankind by 2020 still means that the people who do can be hypocrites.
- elcamino44 4y agoMohammed bin Salman’s public position is that global warming is real and dangerous and he has pledged that Saudi Arabia will be carbon neutral by 2060. I think if you wanted to make a case that he’s a hypocrite, there’s ample evidence out there. But then the real question is why hypocrisy is so bad. All of us are hypocrites in different ways, on different things. Why is being a hypocrite on climate change worse than being wilfully ignorant?
- mistermann 4y agoWe may not be interested in metaphysics, but metaphysics may be interested in us.
- sidewndr46 4y agoYou are now comparing Gates to a dictator in a country that brutally murders reporters for publishing critical pieces. Amongst other atrocities. I wouldn't give Bill G the time of day if on the street, but this is a pointless comparison.
- bamboozled 4y agoOn the other hand he could try fly a bit less ?
- ajsnigrutin 4y agoYup... Do as you preach, and others will follow. Flying your private jet to a conference, and tell Johnny Average that he shouldn't use his car to drive to his workplace is a shitty thing to do. And he's far from being the only one doing that.
- decremental 4y agoSimilarly the vocal and rich advocates for climate change policy buying beachfront property on Martha's Vinyard. To say that these people are merely hypocrites is being too generous. They don't believe what they're saying at all.
- jackmott42 4y agoWhich advocates in particular? Why do you think buying a beach homes implies they don't believe what they are saying? Are you arriving at the most convenient conclusion for yourself, rather than the most likely one?
- decremental 4y agoFormer president Obama stands out. Why would you spend a considerable amount of your wealth on a home that is about to be swallowed up by the ocean on account of us barreling headlong into imminent climate catastrophe? You wouldn't.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoWhat is the definition of imminent? Maybe Obama thinks that he and his family will still get sufficient utility out of before the home is swallowed up by the ocean? Perhaps he feels he has enough set aside for his descendants and is comfortable blowing the rest on personal comforts for their remainder years?
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- BurningFrog 4y agoWhat you or I, or even Gates do in our personal lives has absolutely no effect on climate change. Solutions or failures happen in other contexts. Gates does some real work in those. The whole "I must recycle all my plastic bags or the planet will die" mentality is, to me, a weird form of delusion of grandeur. Seeing past that can be both freeing and depressing :)
- id 4y agoIt can be freeing to lie to yourself, but it remains a lie. Of course limiting personal pollution has an effect.
- mathieuh 4y agoYes, we saw this over covid lockdowns where the massively reduced number of cars on the road resulted in a dramatic improvement in air quality around cities. If enough individuals start taking the bus or cycling in we can definitely improve our local environment, regardless of the minuscule effect on a global scale.
- BurningFrog 4y agoI think we can have disagreements without calling each other liars.
- id 4y agoIt's not a disagreement. You made a false statement, I called it out.
- BurningFrog 4y agoI disagree!
- wahnfrieden 4y agoWhy do you think plastics recycling was originally campaigned for by big oil? It’s a pacifying non-solution that gets people to focus on their neighbors behaviors instead of anyone with power
- deltree7 4y agoThis is the dumbest take on Climate Change and I can't believe the HN crowd falls for it. Thought Experiment: Say, Bill Gates (and other VIPs) is respected enough that he can convert 5 Skeptics out a 100 Climate Deniers. So, In order for the successful climate actions Bill Gates has to change the minds of say 10,000 leaders in various positions across the world. That means he effectively has to meet 200,000 people across the globe. If Climate Change is important, and you want quick action, do you want Bill Gates (and others) to a) jet around the globe and try to convince 200,000 people in 5 years or b) Bicycle around the globe and try to convince 200,000 people in 50 years Only a moron would suggest (b). I expect TikTokers and Redditors to pick option (b) as they are easily swayed by "Hurr Durr, Bill Gates Jets" arguments.
- oldgradstudent 4y agoThought experiments are supposed to involve a little bit of thinking. He can jet around the world in economy class without much difference, just a bit of sacrifice. I'll start believing Bill Gates believes in climate change when he starts behaving as if he does.
- id 4y agoHow is he going to "convince 200,000 people in 5 years" if he isn't even willing to fly first class instead of private? He obviously doesn't care, so he's not going to convince anyone.
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- deltree7 4y agoPrivate saves times instead of First Class.
- dasudasu 4y agoHave you considered that his power of persuasion is very dependent upon what he himself practices? Leading by example.
- mikkergp 4y agoI don’t get your hero worship mentality. Talk about pessimism.
- boringg 4y agoThat and he only tried to join in on climate change way after it was politically convenient and he was trying to build his image. As well he has said some poor ideas about climate change solutions when he was first stepping his toes in the water. Which is fine if people don't hold onto your words - as someone with a fair bit of power its detrimental to other initiatives. Since then I still don't know which of his initiatives have shown a high probability of success.
- grooot 4y ago> he only tried to join in on climate change way after it was politically convenient and he was trying to build his image Who can you say this is not true about?
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoSo, I still don't like Gates for various historical reasons. Even some of his climate stuff annoys me. But, it's highly likely that if you ranked the whole human race on how much they'd done to reduce climate change, he may well be at the top. So if it's about "doing his share" then he's probably doing okay. But regardless, I don't want people to stop flying, I want them to stop releasing fossil C02 in the air because it's inefficient. Inefficiencies on an individual scale don't matter, inefficiencies on a civilization wide scale add up quickly. I don't see how flying, or doing any other rich person thing, reduces his credibility. Unless you believe dealing with climate change is going to make us all poorer, which it isn't. If you're really all about hating rich people, then there's lots of "climate justice" projects aiming to help poor people and carbon taxes that replace regressive taxes would be a good thing to champion.
- id 4y agoI don't hate him for being rich, I simply want him to stop polluting excessively. It would help the climate and his message alike. And I don't buy that you can do your share by talking one way and doing the exact opposite privately. It's like being an animal rights advocate who (openly) tortures animals in their free time. Simply doesn't work that way, even if you save more animals than you torture.
- lotsofpulp 4y agoIt is not like animal torture at all because there is a clear line of the right amount of animal torture (for the sake of torturing) that is acceptable (which is obviously none). Where is the line on how much pollution one is allowed to expel? 500sq ft per person apartment? 100sq ft? Prius or RAV4? Commercial flight to visit family, once per year or twice? How many kids?
- ZeroGravitas 4y agoThere's probably many animal rights advocates that aren't hardcore vegan.
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- buttercraft 4y agoWell, do you expect him to fly coach? With security and the rest of his entourage? And a layover in Atlanta?