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> There's an "optimism stigma" that's pervasive throughout society. Funny, I'd say it's quite the opposite, you aren't allowed to say anything negative or you'

> There's an "optimism stigma" that's pervasive throughout society. Funny, I'd say it's quite the opposite, you aren't allowed to say anything negative or you'd be labeled as a "downer". Everything nowadays is "amazing" and "transformative".

Version467 4y ago
Soo maybe it's neither and just heavily dependent on a) the social circles you are a part of, and b) your personal bias towards pessimism/optimism? It's pure speculation, but it feels much more plausible than a society wide bias towards one or the other.
blooalien 4y ago
My own personal experience is that every single time I try to be positive about changing anything for the better in any way, the vast majority of humans I voice any "optimism" to are hell-bent on beating that "naïvety" out of me. The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone. All the technology in the world does only harm if the only thing people want to do with it is "weaponize" it in the service of greed and power-lust. There's nothing "amazing" or "transformative" about repeating the same old mistakes humanity's been guilty of since pretty much the dawn of "civilization". Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad…
- v-erne 4y ago
  I am low energy person (at least for now - its a medical thing that perhaps will be fixed some day). When I hear "positive" people that force a change for the sake of change I know that this will probably mean that I will have to spend the last of my depleted energy resources on this naive persons dummy ideas that are not backed up by experience and insight. And this instantly changes me into pesimist that tries to test the other person if he thought it out, did due dilligence and spend his own energy first before he tries to use my. This is simply a defense mechanism that protects me from people that have aboundance of energy and do no understands that other are not like them. And most good ideas is shit - in real world only execution and timing matters.
- raspberry1337 4y ago
  >The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone Care to expand about what this Utopia would look like and how it would work? Where does the resources come from to bring everyone to a first world standard of living?
  - prottog 4y ago
    Utopia, of course, is when everyone behaves exactly as I want them to. ;-)
- tablespoon 4y ago
  > My own personal experience is that every single time I try to be positive about changing anything for the better in any way, the vast majority of humans I voice any "optimism" to are hell-bent on beating that "naïvety" out of me. An optimist who insists on driving ahead without understanding the challenge he's taking on will almost always end up being a big problem for everyone. > The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all... > Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad… Lenin was an optimist who thought he and his comrades could build a "Utopia for all." > ...but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone.... > Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad… Come on. Pretty much everyone wants a better world for everyone, they just want different ones, and that's a difficult problem.
marcus_holmes 4y ago
My experience has definitely been the other way. Being optimistic about the future is definitely an Unpopular Opinion in my experience. To the point where I've been called a "denier" for expressing any hope at all that we can solve the problems we're facing.
suoduandao2 4y ago
My experience (possibly biased by my model) has been that it's a generational difference. Based on the fourth turning model Boomers are 'Prophets' while Millennials are 'Heroes'. No one cares if a prophet correctly predicts seven weeks of great weather if they miss the one hurricane that wipes everything out. And no one wants to hear a hero (which, let's face it, is a polite synonym for 'cannon fodder') give a realistic assessment of the odds. So this model would predict Boomers are culturally pessimistic while Millennials are culturally optimistic (both to an irrational degree at times). Which has been my actual observation - has anyone here had corroborating or counterfactual experiences?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
togs 4y ago
On the one hand, it’s easy to wallow in nihilism. On the other hand, many who employ an optimistic tone are selling something that probably won’t help

Version467 4y ago

Soo maybe it's neither and just heavily dependent on a) the social circles you are a part of, and b) your personal bias towards pessimism/optimism? It's pure speculation, but it feels much more plausible than a society wide bias towards one or the other.

blooalien 4y ago

My own personal experience is that every single time I try to be positive about changing anything for the better in any way, the vast majority of humans I voice any "optimism" to are hell-bent on beating that "naïvety" out of me. The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone. All the technology in the world does only harm if the only thing people want to do with it is "weaponize" it in the service of greed and power-lust. There's nothing "amazing" or "transformative" about repeating the same old mistakes humanity's been guilty of since pretty much the dawn of "civilization". Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad…

v-erne 4y ago
I am low energy person (at least for now - its a medical thing that perhaps will be fixed some day). When I hear "positive" people that force a change for the sake of change I know that this will probably mean that I will have to spend the last of my depleted energy resources on this naive persons dummy ideas that are not backed up by experience and insight. And this instantly changes me into pesimist that tries to test the other person if he thought it out, did due dilligence and spend his own energy first before he tries to use my. This is simply a defense mechanism that protects me from people that have aboundance of energy and do no understands that other are not like them. And most good ideas is shit - in real world only execution and timing matters.
raspberry1337 4y ago
>The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all, but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone Care to expand about what this Utopia would look like and how it would work? Where does the resources come from to bring everyone to a first world standard of living?
- prottog 4y ago
  Utopia, of course, is when everyone behaves exactly as I want them to. ;-)
tablespoon 4y ago
> My own personal experience is that every single time I try to be positive about changing anything for the better in any way, the vast majority of humans I voice any "optimism" to are hell-bent on beating that "naïvety" out of me. An optimist who insists on driving ahead without understanding the challenge he's taking on will almost always end up being a big problem for everyone. > The problem I see is that humanity as a whole has much of what we need to build a Utopia for all... > Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad… Lenin was an optimist who thought he and his comrades could build a "Utopia for all." > ...but almost nobody actually wants a better world for anyone let alone for everyone.... > Perhaps instead of actively trying to find excuses to dissuade "optimists" from even trying, society might be better off trying to teach that supporting good ideas that benefit everyone is a good thing, not bad… Come on. Pretty much everyone wants a better world for everyone, they just want different ones, and that's a difficult problem.

marcus_holmes 4y ago

My experience has definitely been the other way. Being optimistic about the future is definitely an Unpopular Opinion in my experience. To the point where I've been called a "denier" for expressing any hope at all that we can solve the problems we're facing.

suoduandao2 4y ago

My experience (possibly biased by my model) has been that it's a generational difference. Based on the fourth turning model Boomers are 'Prophets' while Millennials are 'Heroes'. No one cares if a prophet correctly predicts seven weeks of great weather if they miss the one hurricane that wipes everything out. And no one wants to hear a hero (which, let's face it, is a polite synonym for 'cannon fodder') give a realistic assessment of the odds. So this model would predict Boomers are culturally pessimistic while Millennials are culturally optimistic (both to an irrational degree at times). Which has been my actual observation - has anyone here had corroborating or counterfactual experiences?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

togs 4y ago

On the one hand, it’s easy to wallow in nihilism. On the other hand, many who employ an optimistic tone are selling something that probably won’t help